ID cards legislation examined

Indy500

Indy500

Indy500

Soldato
Joined
7 Mar 2005
Posts
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During the MP expenses furore, 4 draft orders were quietly being laid before Parliament relating to the ID cards system with a promise of more to come. As with the Lisbon Treaty the orders can only be understood with a copy of the ID cards Act 2006 in front of you:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/ukpga_20060015_en_1

It is important to realise that if you sign up for an ID card (or one of the new biometric passports from a certain date) you are creating a new legal identity on the National Identity Register subject to the terms already laid out by the above law. Those terms may change at any time in the future (as seen from these draft orders). As should be apparent the 'front end' (piece of plastic ID card or passport) won't change the fact that your information is going to the same place. They are being deliberately woven together so that your chances of ending up on the NIR for your 'voluntary' ID card are going to be quite high.

I see a couple of newspapers spotted this but restricted themselves to only the point about taxman snooping:

Taxman allowed access to personal data

Taxman can use database of ID cards to track our spending habits and bank accounts

There is far more to this story than that:

The Identity Cards Act 2006 (Designation) Order 2009

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/draft/ukdsi_9780111479056_en_1

Criminal record check certificates for those seeking airside passes fall into the category of documents that the Secretary of State can require your entry into the ID cards database. This is along with categories of documents used by ministers and government departments already. So for example the Secretary of State can designate a certain category of documents that, if you have authority to handle, you must be registered in the database.

The Identity Cards Act 2006 (Provision of Information without Consent) Regulations 2009

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/draft/ukdsi_9780111479063_en_1

Elaborates on certain situations in which government departments will be given access to the info in your identity profile (apart from an audit trail) without your consent.

Just the key points here. Amongst others these bodies will have access to your information without consent for:

HM Revenue and Customs

- National security matters.
- Prevention/detection of crime.
- Prevention/detection/investigation of matters they can impose penalties.
- Matters related to national insurance incl. numbers.

Home Office

- Almost everything relating to passports.
- Almost everything relating to immigration, asylum and nationality.
- The prevention and detection of crime/national security.

Ministry of Justice

- Helping those imprisoned abroad.
- In enforcing certain court judgments.

Department for Transport

- All those matters relating to the licensing of drivers and vehicles.
- All those matters relating to enforcement powers under merchant shipping.

Department for Work and Pensions

- Investigating, preventing detecting or prosecuting people for social security offences.

These are so broad that they will effectively be able to justify access without consent in most cases if they want to. In addition data sharing has been increased so that information that would have been provided to the police/security services for example, can be given to someone else who has been authorised and is of a certain rank without your consent.

The Identity Cards Act 2006 (Information and Code of Practice on Penalties) Order 2009

https://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/draft/ukdsi_9780111479087_en_1

This adds referees on ID card/designated document application to the already voluminous set of registrable information in Schedule 1 here:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/ukpga_20060015_en_5#sch1

Also adds:

- Department for Work and Pensions
- Department for Transport
- Foreign and Commonwealth Office
- Department of the Environment (Northern Ireland)
- HM Revenue and Customs
- Registrar General for England and Wales
- Registrar General for Scotland
- Registrar General for Northern Ireland
- Any credit reference agency which is being contracted for supply of information under the ID cards Act by the Secretary of State.

All of the above can be required to relinquish information for your identity profile.

The Identity Cards Act 2006 (Fees) Regulations 2009

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/draft/ukdsi_9780111479070_en_1

- An application entered on the NIR will cost £30
- An ID card will cost £30

A Code of Practice on civil penalties was also released:

Code of Practice on Civil Penalties

http://www.ips.gov.uk/identity/downloads/code_practice_civil_penalties_2009.pdf

- Confirms that the maximum fine will be set at £1,000.
- Reiterates that deliberate or reckless provision of false information is a criminal offence under section 28 of the Act with a maximum penalty of 2 years imprisonment.

A choice quote:

The civil penalty scheme is not intended to be punitive or revenue-raising.
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But then:

It is very important that card holders are aware of the importance of these obligations and the civil penalty regime will act as a strong encouragement to comply and will ensure that it is possible to penalise anyone who flaunts the law.
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Gotta love the Orwellian doublespeak there...

I'm not sure whether these have been voted on yet here in Westminster, but the Scottish parliament rejected them earlier this year.
 
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What use are ID cards if people just refuse to carry them? I have no intention to carry one really - they can try to find me all they like.
 
rypt said:
What use are ID cards if people just refuse to carry them? I have no intention to carry one really - they can try to find me all they like.
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because after most people get them,. Then you will be forced to carry it. If labour want it, they will get it.

Just hope Tories hold their promise.
 
sr4470 said:
Since you need a passport to work in this country, it'll almost certainly end up being the main document, its already been chipped as of last year.
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Nothing a magnet or a trip in the washing-machine doesn't sort out though.

I say this now: I will not allow myself to be part of this ID scheme and I will certainly not pay for the damn pleasure.

Regardless, it's safe to say that Labour are out in the next general, so as said: let's hope other parties keep their promise. In terms of budget though, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't.
 
Nix said:
Nothing a magnet or a trip in the washing-machine doesn't sort out though.

I say this now: I will not allow myself to be part of this ID scheme and I will certainly not pay for the damn pleasure.

Regardless, it's safe to say that Labour are out in the next general, so as said: let's hope other parties keep their promise. In terms of budget though, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't.
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You could, just make sure nobody sees the tampering ;) In all seriousness though, I don't see a change of ruling party making much difference. Cameron's U-turn was political expediency and nothing more. I'll judge the true approach when he's actually in power and by any new or amended legislation.
 
I worked around the national ID card scheme for a year and a half. OSA prevents me from saying anything much, but it is so much worse than even your excellent and accurate synopsis sr4470.

You wait until the UK signs up fully to Schengen. After that it won't be too long before the NIR is accessible to most of Europe.

Oh, and the NIR is being built by a US company. Wonder how long it will take for the US Government to get hold of the information it wants?
 
BigT said:
I worked around the national ID card scheme for a year and a half. OSA prevents me from saying anything much, but it is so much worse than even your excellent and accurate synopsis sr4470.

You wait until the UK signs up fully to Schengen. After that it won't be too long before the NIR is accessible to most of Europe.

Oh, and the NIR is being built by a US company. Wonder how long it will take for the US Government to get hold of the information it wants?
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Lockheed Martin, IIRC wasn't it? Defence contractor.
 
I would rather live in a shack somewhere in the middle of the amazon than be subject to this ruling government. I cant believe that 99% of the country arn't bothered by any of this. Most people buy into whatever government crap is thrown their way.

I'm telling you, without sounding like some crazed conspiracy theorist, the future of this country is going down the pan and its what the three major ruling parties want. We dont have a true democracy anymore IMO, just different coloured shirts all buzzing around the same ideas.
 
sr4470 said:
Lockheed Martin, IIRC wasn't it? Defence contractor.
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IBM are contracted to the NBIS programme which is the part that builds the NIR, and CSC are contracted to deliver the A&E programme which is all the application and enrolement piece as well as looking after most of IPS's IT.

Thales won the CWIC programme, now known as EPP I believe, which has already built the first NIR and issuing cards to airside workers and such like.

Lockheed Martin run the IDENT1 programme for the police which is their biometric database.
 
BigT said:
IBM are contracted to the NBIS programme which is the part that builds the NIR, and CSC are contracted to deliver the A&E programme which is all the application and enrolement piece as well as looking after most of IPS's IT.

Thales won the CWIC programme, now known as EPP I believe, which has already built the first NIR and issuing cards to airside workers and such like.

Lockheed Martin run the IDENT1 programme for the police which is their biometric database.
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Ah yes, thanks for the correction.
 
Still at least our eBorders programme is not as invasive as the US Visit programme, eh? If you've ever been to the US you'll know that you have to give your fingerprints over to them upon entry to the country and while Homeland Security keeps the master record, the FBI and Secret Service have full access to that. Oh, and of course there are bi-lateral agreements in place between the US and UK intelligence agencies. Blimey, who knows where all this information will go. ;)
 
BigT said:
Still at least our eBorders programme is not as invasive as the US Visit programme, eh? If you've ever been to the US you'll know that you have to give your fingerprints over to them upon entry to the country and while Homeland Security keeps the master record, the FBI and Secret Service have full access to that. Oh, and of course there are bi-lateral agreements in place between the US and UK intelligence agencies. Blimey, who knows where all this information will go. ;)
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Yup, even the transit visa is pretty intrusive. Not to mention the fingerprinting at the US end, photographing at this end.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/niv/transit.html

You'd do better flying via communist Hong Kong :p
 
An excellent post indeed OP.

Of course you can guarentee the public will be made aware of all these facts before anything goes ahead.....oh wait.
This is the road to ruin, the UK will just end up like a giant open prison. The Conservatives better keep their promiise.
 
My only consolation in all this is how well the Government is skilled at stuffing up large IT projects, particularly those with complex system integrartion requirements. I can't think that they'd actually have the ability to manage anyone to make all these things talk to each other. That's why information sharing between Government departments is pretty much non-existant. The Government Gateway is sort of OK, but for practical purposes is restricted to HMRC for anything useful and the only others who do well are the intelligence agencies, but then they don't really do "sharing", they sort of suck data out of other Government Departments, and always will do. However their prime source of information on the populous, DVLA, is now becoming restrictive for their needs and they need NIR.
 
rypt said:
What use are ID cards if people just refuse to carry them? I have no intention to carry one really - they can try to find me all they like.
Click to expand...

Nix said:
I say this now: I will not allow myself to be part of this ID scheme and I will certainly not pay for the damn pleasure.
Click to expand...

Sums up my feelings quite well.

Quick Terrorist 101 to the Government idiots who think this is a good idea: The terrorists are home grown and 99% of the time they (the Government) don't know they are terrorists until they blow themselves up!

Mind you they will have more data on us and I am sure they and the local councils will find that very useful to interfere even more in our lives.
 
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