Will you take the Swine Flu Jab?

Must admit I wasn't really that concerned over this swine flu pandemic considering it nothing more than media spun sensationalism.

Today at work (Tesco's) I saw an email asking if any of our Class1 delivery drivers have their ADR Licence? (This allows them to carry hazerdous loads)

The reason? It's a contingency plan should Swine Flu reach such proportions that our current contractors cannot meet their obligations we'll still have drivers available to deliver petrol! :eek:
 
By your own reasoning, MRSA doesn't kill, illness + MRSA kills - for both influenza and MRSA related disease the vulnerable (those already suffering) are at risk. That was why I made the comparison.

However, swine flu is extremely contagious, whilst MRSA related illness is confined to hospitals.

Incorrect, a perfectly healthy person can contract Mrsa and die, however its not actually "that" contagious, however it is much more contagious for people who have an operation(or open wound/sore, cuts or other easy access for infection which is why hospitals are a problem as thats generally where people with those "weaknesses" tend to end up,) obviously this could be in a very sick luekemia patient, or someone who is having a mole removed or a boob implant who have very healthy immune systems.

MRSA has and can kill healthy people, so far, swine flu rarely(if ever it seems) kills fully healthy people.

It turns out the old guy the other day died of natural causes and NOT swine flu and the 6 yr old kid is still being looked into. Again even if "healthy" in terms of no diagnoseable diseases or problems, the child could simply have had a poor immune system due to diet/lifestyle, nothing official but you can be unhealthy without anything particularly wrong with you.
 
Incorrect, a perfectly healthy person can contract Mrsa and die, however its not actually "that" contagious, however it is much more contagious for people who have an operation(or open wound/sore, cuts or other easy access for infection which is why hospitals are a problem as thats generally where people with those "weaknesses" tend to end up,) obviously this could be in a very sick luekemia patient, or someone who is having a mole removed or a boob implant who have very healthy immune systems.

MRSA has and can kill healthy people, so far, swine flu rarely(if ever it seems) kills fully healthy people.

It turns out the old guy the other day died of natural causes and NOT swine flu and the 6 yr old kid is still being looked into. Again even if "healthy" in terms of no diagnoseable diseases or problems, the child could simply have had a poor immune system due to diet/lifestyle, nothing official but you can be unhealthy without anything particularly wrong with you.

Of course both have the potential to kill 'healthy' people. I wouldn't say a healthy, fit individual was at risk from a heart attack, although I would say an obese person potentially is. All I was implying was that those who are at greatest risk were those who have pre-existing medical conditions or have some other vulnerability.

'Incorrect'; how douchey do you want to come across, when I'm not even disagreeing with you? :/
 
The flu scare back in the 70s, the vaccine killed 2500% more people than the flu itself. I think I'll take my chances with the flu, thanks.

do you have a source ?

Got to say I wasn't too concerned till I just read that spanish flu thing, It struck out at exactly my current age!
 
do you have a source ?

Got to say I wasn't too concerned till I just read that spanish flu thing, It struck out at exactly my current age!

Here's some info on their behalf - The 2500% figure is slightly miss-leading, though.

From wiki:
1976 U.S. outbreak
Main article: 1976 swine flu outbreak

On February 5, 1976, in the United States an army recruit at Fort Dix said he felt tired and weak. He died the next day and four of his fellow soldiers were later hospitalized. Two weeks after his death, health officials announced that the cause of death was a new strain of swine flu. The strain, a variant of H1N1, is known as A/New Jersey/1976 (H1N1). It was detected only from January 19 to February 9 and did not spread beyond Fort Dix.[29]
President Ford receives swine flu vaccination

This new strain appeared to be closely related to the strain involved in the 1918 flu pandemic. Moreover, the ensuing increased surveillance uncovered another strain in circulation in the U.S.: A/Victoria/75 (H3N2) spread simultaneously, also caused illness, and persisted until March.[29] Alarmed public-health officials decided action must be taken to head off another major pandemic, and urged President Gerald Ford that every person in the U.S. be vaccinated for the disease.[30]

The vaccination program was plagued by delays and public relations problems.[31] On October 1, 1976, the immunization program began and by October 11, approximately 40 million people, or about 24% of the population, had received swine flu immunizations. That same day, three senior citizens died soon after receiving their swine flu shots and there was a media outcry linking the deaths to the immunizations, despite the lack of positive proof. According to science writer Patrick Di Justo, however, by the time the truth was known — that the deaths were not proven to be related to the vaccine — it was too late. "The government had long feared mass panic about swine flu — now they feared mass panic about the swine flu vaccinations." This became a strong setback to the program.[32]

There were reports of Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralyzing neuromuscular disorder, affecting some people who had received swine flu immunizations. This syndrome is a rare side-effect of modern influenza vaccines, with an incidence of about one case per million vaccinations.[33] As a result, Di Justo writes that "the public refused to trust a government-operated health program that killed old people and crippled young people." In total, less than 33% of the population had been immunized by the end of 1976. The National Influenza Immunization Program was effectively halted on December 16.

Overall, there were about 500 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), resulting in death from severe pulmonary complications for 25 people, which, according to Dr. P. Haber, were probably caused by an immunopathological reaction to the 1976 vaccine. Other influenza vaccines have not been linked to GBS, though caution is advised for certain individuals, particularly those with a history of GBS.[34][35] Still, as observed by a participant in the immunization program, the vaccine killed more Americans than the disease did.[36]
 
Yeah just slightly! To para phrase the above:

The only reason it killed more than the flu was the flu never actually spread to anyone on mass. Then when 40 million people got the vaccine, 25 people died from a freak reaction. IF the flu had actually spread it would have killed way more than the vaccine!
 
Of course both have the potential to kill 'healthy' people. I wouldn't say a healthy, fit individual was at risk from a heart attack, although I would say an obese person potentially is. All I was implying was that those who are at greatest risk were those who have pre-existing medical conditions or have some other vulnerability.

'Incorrect'; how douchey do you want to come across, when I'm not even disagreeing with you? :/

I'm being douchey, to be fair I thought I was replying to Megahatronic, who wound me up with his previous reply, a whole post entirely and utterly disagree'ing with him and he says well we're on the same page.

Also I thought the way you responded to Freefaller was rather douchey and I disagreed with you, and the way in which you disagree'd with him. It was the typical response of trying to twist someones words to agree with you, he said nothing of the sort frankly and I did pretty much think your response was douchey to start off with. Nothing worse than someone twisting someone else's response, which is exactly what Meghatronic did, twice in this thread which is why i replied like I did.

The difference between MRSA and Swine flu is, not everyone with a weak immune system of some other problem is dying of swine flu, its a very easy to fight off disease and very few people are dying full stop. MRSA doesn't kill a huge number of people, but its a bacteria not a virus, its incredibly strong, dangerous and really has to have antibiotic treatment. The same can't be said for Swine flu, anyone who gets swine flu has a fantastic chance to fight it off all by themselves, even if not in a great condition. If you get Mrsa, without antibiotics you have a very high chance of dying of a systemic virilent possibly incredibly antibiotic resistant strain. You're trying to relate the idea that Mrsa and Swine flu seem similar because they both effect weaker, immuno-comprimised people mostly. But thats true of the majority of diseases, virus's, bacteria's, fungus's in the world, its really not a thing to use to compare any kind of illness at alll. I'm not at all sure you're right in that both have the potential to kill healthy people, MRSA has an incredibly real potential to kill anyone, your average healthy person who gets swine flu, won't die, that same person gets MRSA and without treatment, could easily die.


As you wouldn't call a healthy fit guy at risk of heart attack under normal circumstances, I wouldn't call a guy who cut his hand on broken glass immuno comprimised either, however that guy could catch MRSA while getting treatment and die from it. THat same guy would be ridiculously unlikely to die if he got swine flu even though he has a much higher chance of catching it. MRSA might be less contagious but an otherwise healthy person can fairly easily die from it.

IN terms of pandemic, they aren't in the same league and in terms of lethality they aren't in the same league, they are really nothing alike.

I'd take Swine flu over MRSA any day of the week, and I'd take MRSA over HA-MRSA also, and so would any informed person.
 
Last edited:
yes, i don't want to contract it when it becomes more lethal, plus i have a duty to protect my son from it too.

I'd be worried about taking it in it's current form, simply because if it mutates into it's lethal form the jab might not work. The chances are that the jab will be ineffective by the time the virus reaches that form, simply due to the number of mutation based permutations it can reach. That's why the common flu can't be truly combatted, simply because it mutates at such speeds a definitive cure cannot be developed
 
People are also overestimating the death rate, I believe, because the majority of cases wont be reported to to the authorities. I have it, tried getting through to NHS direct a various times - its impossible, they say if you have swine flu just stay at home. My friend with likely swine flu went to the docs, who didnt test her, offered her tamiflu and tolod her to go home - thats another non confirmed/reported case of swine flu. The same goes for my niece. I believe Swine flu is spreading very rapidly but reported less and less, thus distorting the death rate.
 
Also I thought the way you responded to Freefaller was rather douchey and I disagreed with you, and the way in which you disagree'd with him...

All Freefaller said was he could not understand the concern:

I can't believe all this fuss about flu.... :/ Geeze, I mean if it was a real problem I could understand, but goodness me this is gettind dull and ridiculous. :/

I simply replied that:

Despite media frenzy, there is reason to be concerned

And relayed some information that others found useful in another thread. I can't really see how that is being 'douchey', but sincere apologies to those who took it that way!

As regards to the MRSA comments, I never intended my MRSA comment to be dissected further than "although only a niche of the public is at greatest risk, that is enough to make it a big deal" - you are completely right in what you say in your comparison.

No hard feelings :)
 
People are also overestimating the death rate, I believe, because the majority of cases wont be reported to to the authorities. I have it, tried getting through to NHS direct a various times - its impossible, they say if you have swine flu just stay at home. My friend with likely swine flu went to the docs, who didnt test her, offered her tamiflu and tolod her to go home - thats another non confirmed/reported case of swine flu. The same goes for my niece. I believe Swine flu is spreading very rapidly but reported less and less, thus distorting the death rate.

How do you know the doctor didn't report it after she left?

Also if someone was to die, swine flu would have been picked up during tests to find out the reason why he/she died. This of course would be reported.
 
If he did and it wasn't actually swine flu, it wrongly inflates the figures. Likewise if he didn't report it and it is swine flu.

Either way it seems we can't trust the official figures.

This is true, but you can take it as read that the offical figures over inflate the actual death rate as you know how many people are dead because of the disease and you know that the actual number of people who have the disease is much higher than is reported.

Hawker
 
Scenario:

Yesterday one of your staff members reports that his mrs has been sent home with 'flu-like symptoms'. He's worried about her and tells her to call the doc's. She refuses saying something along the lines of 'I work with pharmacologists who say if I don't have fever I'm OK'. This morning she calls the doc's as she's feeling worse and she is prescribed tamiflu.

Staff member comes into work feeling fine. 3 hours later feeling tired.

Is he putting other staff at risk? Should he get the rest of the day/week off?

I'm off to Egypt on sunday, if I get flu (swine or regular) I'm gonna kill him.
 
Scenario:

Yesterday one of your staff members reports that his mrs has been sent home with 'flu-like symptoms'. He's worried about her and tells her to call the doc's. She refuses saying something along the lines of 'I work with pharmacologists who say if I don't have fever I'm OK'. This morning she calls the doc's as she's feeling worse and she is prescribed tamiflu.

Staff member comes into work feeling fine. 3 hours later feeling tired.

Is he putting other staff at risk? Should he get the rest of the day/week off?

I'm off to Egypt on sunday, if I get flu (swine or regular) I'm gonna kill him.

Ideally, the best you can hope for is to take the rest of the week off yourself :p

There isn't really much that can be done, it is a bit much to send somebody home on the hunch they might have flu.
 
Back
Top Bottom