So why petrol over diesel on none spaceship miles?

PMKeates said:
I dunno... try joining a motorway via a slip road on an incline in a 1.2 44hp Corsa with 2 passengers and a misfire :p
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One of the M8 onslips is like this. It's maybe 100 meters long and is on a fairly steep incline. I once stopped because the car in front was intent on joining the motorway at approx 30mph.
 
Robbie G said:
I'm about to take delivery of a car with a 1.4 litre petrol engine with a supercharger and a turbocharger, that delivers 160PS. It's a nice engine, delivering low end torque thanks to the supercharger and then at higher revs the turbocharger takes over almost seamlessly.

It's cheap to tax, insurance is lower than if it had been a 2l engine developing the same power, and it's highly fuel efficient.

I think the days of massive engines in every day cars are in general behind us, simply because technology is advancing to the point that they're no longer required. Smaller capacity engines will help the world meet its emissions targets (not that I give a foxtrot about that) and therefore be cheaper to own and run, but still kick out plenty of power through turbo/supercharging, more efficient engines and gearboxes, and trickle-down technologies from F1.

So I don't think it's appropriate anymore to talk generally about the merits of engines in terms of their cylinder capacity.
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Let me guess.

A new Golf GT with the 1.4TSI engine?

Good choice - would have one myself if my budget stretched that far. :)
 
PMKeates said:
It's only relevant to say it suits "real world dull ass driving" if the engine is small. 3L+ petrol has more than enough grunt for easy progress.
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Yes, because we all drive those dont we?

No we dont, and neither do the overwhelming vast majority of motorists.
And even then, the delivery would STILL be different, last 3L+ car I drove was an SVX with 3.3 litres, yes it was very smooth and torquey , it still wasnt as lazy or as punchy as a diesel was low down.

The 150BHP 133FT/LB 2.0l engine in my car is "fine" for driving, I prefer the low down punch of a TD, as it is easy for lazy driving.
 
atpbx said:
Yes, because we all drive those dont we?

No we dont, and neither do the overwhelming vast majority of motorists.
And even then, the delivery would STILL be different, last 3L+ car I drove was an SVX with 3.3 litres, yes it was very smooth and torquey , it still wasnt as lazy or as punchy as a diesel was low down.

The 150BHP 133FT/LB 2.0l engine in my car is "fine" for driving, I prefer the low down punch of a TD, as it is easy for lazy driving.
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I can lazy drive a 1.1l Petrol 1995 Peugeot 106 and it drives fine so I don't see how a diesel is best for lazy driving, unless you just don't understand how to drive. :/

I'm not saying you can't drive, just that it seems odd that you think you either need a large petrol engine or a mid sized diesel to be able to drive lazily.
 
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InvaderGIR said:
I find even small ones are fine for every day driving so have no clue what the other guy is on about.
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Its an opinion, its something that forms when you take your thoughts about something, combine them with your experiences about that something,how you respond emotionally about that subject, then cogitate on it a little while.

The result of which is another thought, called "belief", this is is entirely subjective and personal, and not based on cast Iron fact.
 
InvaderGIR said:
I can lazy drive a 1.1l Petrol 1995 Peugeot 106 and it drives fine so I don't see how a diesel is best for lazy driving, unless you just don't understand how to drive. :/

I'm not saying you can't drive, just that it seems odd that you think you either need a large petrol engine or a mid sized diesel to be able to drive lazily.
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It could be a lot of things-

Its because you dont understand the premise of the argument, your definition of lazy driving most likely differs from mine, you dont have the same driving experience as me (16 years, over a million miles in that time..........)
It could be any number variables.
 
Tute said:
Let me guess.

A new Golf GT with the 1.4TSI engine?

Good choice - would have one myself if my budget stretched that far. :)
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Correct - 5 door DSG, paddle shift, convenience pack, steel grey metallic.

I'm like a kid at Christmas only worse. It's being delivered middle of next week at which point I will post up pictures so everyone can call me boring!
 
Robbie G said:
So I don't think it's appropriate anymore to talk generally about the merits of engines in terms of their cylinder capacity.
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It most certainly is and if you dont understand why then you probably never will. There is something about 6, 8, 10 or 12 cylinder car that no amount of turbos on small 4 pots will ever recreate.
 
I've had both back to back. My Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 130 diesel was great, when I had it, I loved it. It went fast, I adjusted my driving style to it's power band and wasn't concerned about the noise or the fact it didn't rev to a redline.
I'm now driving a Holden Commodore SS 5.7 V8 petrol, I've readjusted my driving style and I absolutely adore the sound it makes (it definitely adds to the experience which I've only now come to truly appreciate). The power band is insane and I do enjoy seeing the revs reach the redline and then change into the next gear etc.

I've got a sneaking suspicion that if I was to get a high performance diesel, I'd really miss the fun of a petrol - whilst it would go as fast, I wouldn't get as much enjoyment out of it (given the noise and power characteristics) but I cannot say for sure.
 
InvaderGIR said:
I can lazy drive a 1.1l Petrol 1995 Peugeot 106 and it drives fine so I don't see how a diesel is best for lazy driving, unless you just don't understand how to drive. :/

I'm not saying you can't drive, just that it seems odd that you think you either need a large petrol engine or a mid sized diesel to be able to drive lazily.
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He's right - the flexibility offered by a diesels torque spread DOES make it more suitable for lazy driving. The sort where you cant be bothered to change down and instead prefer simply wafting. Wafting requires a nice turbodiesel or a big capacity petrol. Small engines cannot do it.
 
Tute said:
Dare I ask how much it set you back? :)
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No problem at all - £16,850 with scrappage discount and via dealdrivers.

I'd imagine many people will say what I could have got for that money had I bought second hand (mostly a 3 series beemer I'm guessing judging by what I often read in this forum). In three years time when we come to sell / PX it, it'll probably still be worth around £11k going by current MkV resale prices, which isn't earth-shatteringly bad depreciation really.

Anyway I won't hijack this thread so the detailed discussion about how foolish I've been can be had in a different one when I make a thread next week :D.
 
atpbx said:
Its an opinion, its something that forms when you take your thoughts about something, combine them with your experiences about that something,how you respond emotionally about that subject, then cogitate on it a little while.

The result of which is another thought, called "belief", this is is entirely subjective and personal, and not based on cast Iron fact.
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Well done I never realised that, thanks for telling me. :rolleyes:*

[TW]Fox;14483232 said:
He's right - the flexibility offered by a diesels torque spread DOES make it more suitable for lazy driving. The sort where you cant be bothered to change down and instead prefer simply wafting. Wafting requires a nice turbodiesel or a big capacity petrol. Small engines cannot do it.
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My point is they can, maybe not quite as happily and lazy as you may like, but they can.



*Feel privileged, I almost never use that icon.
 
[TW]Fox;14483225 said:
It most certainly is and if you dont understand why then you probably never will. There is something about 6, 8, 10 or 12 cylinder car that no amount of turbos on small 4 pots will ever recreate.
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I was referring to engine capacity ceteris paribus i.e. comparing 4 pots with 4 pots, 6 pots with 6 pots, etc. Not sure why you're referring to the number of cylinders when I was referring to engine capacity?

I'll explain again. Just like a super / turbocharged 1.4L can recreate and in some cases exceed the experience of driving a 2L n/a engine, a turbocharged 2L engine can recreate the feel of driving a n/a 3L engine, etc. Looking forwards, this technology will allow smaller and smaller engines to reproduce the characteristics of larger and larger ones.
 
Robbie G said:
No problem at all - £16,850 with scrappage discount and via dealdrivers.

I'd imagine many people will say what I could have got for that money had I bought second hand (mostly a 3 series beemer I'm guessing judging by what I often read in this forum). In three years time when we come to sell / PX it, it'll probably still be worth around £11k going by current MkV resale prices, which isn't earth-shatteringly bad depreciation really.

Anyway I won't hijack this thread so the detailed discussion about how foolish I've been can be had in a different one when I make a thread next week :D.
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Trouble is, just try even finding a 160bhp GT second hand. Most are selling as fast as they go up, and there aren't even many of them to begin with.

Residuals aren't that bad with a Volkswagen anyway - as i'm finding out to my frustration they hold their value well.
 
I'm 50 miles away from completing B'ham to Chester Le Street and back again. Cruised at around 65mph due to traffic, had a few spells at 50mph through cameras and 3 repmobile races.

Computer is showing 56.4mpg.

No way I'll ever have a petrol workhorse again.

Do still want a petrol for weekend though, but 3 litres plus and 6 cylinders, the grunt has got me hooked.
 
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