Fast Track ultra 20-20000Hz?

EdAllonby

EdAllonby

EdAllonby

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I'm just curious, I hope OCUK can help. The Fast track Ultra says this
" * Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +/- 0.1dB"

The Sennheiser HD650 headphones range from a frequency of 10-38500Hz, does this mean the fast track will limit the phones to 20-20khz? I know a human can't tell a difference below 20hz and vice-versa, but surely if you're paying for something £200> you want the satisfaction. Also, can someone tell me what the +/- 0.1dB means?
 
read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_response

"Frequency response requirements differ depending on the application.[2] In high fidelity audio, an amplifier requires a frequency response of at least 20–20,000 Hz, with a tolerance as tight as ±0.1 dB in the mid-range frequencies around 1000 Hz, however, in telephony, a frequency response of 400–4000 Hz, with a tolerance of ±1 dB is sufficient for intelligibility of speech.[2]"
 
i wouldnt worry about the quoted frequency response of the amplifier, it'll be more than adiquate. If you are using the hd650's they arent the most responsive in the 20-30hz region anyway so it wont make a huge difference lol
 
Ok. So is it just a gimmick that headphone makers go below 20hz and up to 40000hz??? Why do the companies go through the extra trouble when there is no point? Or is there a point?
 
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no its not a gikkick at at all, its just that the senns arent the headphones you want if you want masses of bass in the 20-30hz region due to the progressive rolloff from about 30hz. that 10-38500hz that senn quote for the 650's is NOT the standard +/-3db rating, believe me. its more like -10db at the bottom end. They are great headphones though - i own a pair - but they are not ultra wobbly low head phones.
 
Ok, lets forget about the Senns at the moment. What is the actual point of headphones going below 20hz and 20000Hz +.
 
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The point is rolloff. Sure they'll reach those frequencies but only just and the quality will be terrible, but having these larger buffers means that roll off will effect the frequencies you can here less.

+/- 0.1db is an error allowance, it means it'll create those frequencies within 0.1db either way of the recorded frequency (assuming your amp and DAC have no effect).


Also note that a lot companies lie about frequency response particularly the ones that go from 20hz-20khz as this usually indicates they haven't tested the product and they just slapped the human hearing range on there.
 
Nice, thank you for that markop, that helped a lot. Now, If the Fast Track Ultra was used as an amplifier, which says it outputs "20Hz to 20000Hz", and the "headphones" rate at "10-40000Hz", does the Audio Interface Amplifier limit the headphones frequency? or does it mean that the headphones rolloff make sure that it will constantly hit 20Hz and 20000hz
 
Here's a review of that card

http://fr.audiofanzine.com/carte-son-externe/m-audio/Fast-Track-Ultra/tests/#pages

In french but go to page 6 and you'll see the MEASURED responses.

It's normal to quote 20-20kHz with the tolerance in a spec - +/- 0.1dB is very good, often you see +/-3dB. 20-20kHz is your normal hearing range so it's most useful to see what boundary that spec falls into. (A quoted spec of 20-20kHz without tolerance doesn't mean anything - could be +/-30dB for all you know)

The response you get is the composite of the interface and your headphones - it won't just disappear after 20kHz it's just the level is unquoted - it may only be 1dB down or could be much much more.

As a practicality anything from a CD source can't go above 22.05kHz due to Nyquist and your hearing is probably down by 30dB by the time you get to 20kHz anyway - i tested my own ears in the lab when at university and compared to the rest of the group i was pretty good - even i was 30dB or more down at 20kHz.
 
Wow cool. Just out of curiosity Dave, what did you study at university, im doing music technology maths and physics at A levels, and I'm pretty stumpted at what to do after that.
 
I did Audio Technology / Acoustics at Salford.

If you want to sit in a studio and record music then it's not at all the right of course - it's pretty hardcore physics and maths with a dash of electronics thrown in.
 
I don't see how headphones can go down to 10hz. I would think that if you played a 10hz sample and turned it up they would break.

My B&W floorstanding speakers go crazy when playing a 33hz sample, turn it up and it looks like they will break (and also the doors/walls shake a lot)

Surely the only things that have a chance of going to 10hz would be expensive sub woofers, not headphones with tiny cones
 
Guest2 said:
I don't see how headphones can go down to 10hz. I would think that if you played a 10hz sample and turned it up they would break.

My B&W floorstanding speakers go crazy when playing a 33hz sample, turn it up and it looks like they will break (and also the doors/walls shake a lot)

Surely the only things that have a chance of going to 10hz would be expensive sub woofers, not headphones with tiny cones
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Tang Band make a 2" sub, and you can get 15" cones which are made for use over 100Hz, a cone doesn't have to be big to go low... A headphone does not need to shift as much air as a speaker, so only needs a tiny amount of xmax.

Even if the headphone was doing 10Hz, you wouldn't hear it anyway, but it can be measured...
 
10hz is on the freshold of my hearing. people say you cant hear 20hz 'but you can feel it' - rubbish tbh. Ive played 20hz sine wave to other people using my modded ex85 earphones and every one of them heard it and they sure dont generate enough energy to feel anything in that range. i dont know where this believe that you cant hear anything under 30hz comes from, because it certainly isnt my experiance :)
 
It depends on the sub, but if you have one that gives off enough SPL between 20 and 30Hz, I'm sure it would be audible... Many subs just give off harmonics at 20Hz when turned up however...
 
james.miller said:
10hz is on the freshold of my hearing. people say you cant hear 20hz 'but you can feel it' - rubbish tbh. Ive played 20hz sine wave to other people using my modded ex85 earphones and every one of them heard it and they sure dont generate enough energy to feel anything in that range. i dont know where this believe that you cant hear anything under 30hz comes from, because it certainly isnt my experiance :)
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At what level were you running your tests?

I can hear at 30kHz...if it's loud enough.

You have to do comparative tests not just 'can you hear it'
 
its hard to say using earphones - ive nothing to measure them with. however at home, i can hear 20hz at 90db comfortably using a sealed 15" subwoofer :)
 
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The best sound I have ever was probably in Amnesia nightclub in Ibiza. The sound there sort of 'went through you' It was stupidly loud but not ear piercing with a huge amount of 'depth' (if sound has depth?)

Does anyone know what speakers and system they use there?
 
Guest2 said:
The best sound I have ever was probably in Amnesia nightclub in Ibiza. The sound there sort of 'went through you' It was stupidly loud but not ear piercing with a huge amount of 'depth' (if sound has depth?)

Does anyone know what speakers and system they use there?
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Could be Martin Audio, Funktion 1 or even Void Acoustics, it may say on thier website. Fabric in London is pretty good, they've got subs under the floor which shake the floor when the bass kicks in. :cool:
 
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