Battleground God

oh ffs, was about to post and then Evangelion has said the same blooming thing.

Anyway, I too won a gold medal in atheism by getting everything "correct". Although having had many a debate in the past week with creationists I think I was in a pretty good position to start with.
 
oh ffs, was about to post and then Evangelion has said the same blooming thing.

:cool:

Anyway, I too won a gold medal in atheism by getting everything "correct". Although having had many a debate in the past week with creationists I think I was in a pretty good position to start with.

I expected no less from you, Mr Collett.

:)
 
Terribly worded quiz, the last question was particularly amusing though. Essentially doing the "you're a christian, YOU'RE WRONG" that so many people hate. I have no problem with people having enough faith to believe in god, the last question shows the person that wrote it wants to force people to agree with him.

People can be narrow minded on both sides of the fence ...
 
:rolleyes:
typical questions from atheists that don't understand anything.

You've just taken a direct hit!

Earlier you agreed that it is rational to believe that the Loch Ness monster does not exist if there is an absence of strong evidence or argument that it does. No strong evidence or argument was required to show that the monster does not exist - absence of evidence or argument was enough. But now you claim that the atheist needs to be able to provide strong arguments or evidence if their belief in the non-existence of God is to be rational rather than a matter of faith.

The contradiction is that on the first ocassion (Loch Ness monster) you agreed that the absence of evidence or argument is enough to rationally justify belief in the non-existence of the Loch Ness monster, but on this occasion (God), you do not.
:rolleyes: one is inside science one is if exists is outside science. It also depends what you call evidence. As said one is well researched and quantifiable, the other is not.

You've just taken a direct hit! Earlier you said that it is justifiable to base one's beliefs about the external world on a firm, inner conviction, regardless of the external evidence, or lack of it, for the truth or falsity of this conviction. But now you do not accept that the rapist Peter Sutcliffe was justified in doing just that. The example of the rapist has exposed that you do not in fact agree that any belief is justified just because one is convinced of its truth. So you need to revise your opinion here. The intellectual sniper has scored a bull's-eye!
:rolleyes: wow yes, it's justifiable to believe whatever you want as long as it does not affect others.

You've just taken a direct hit! You say that God does not have the freedom and power to do impossible things such as create square circles, but in an earlier answer you said that any being which it is right to call God must be free and have the power to do anything. So, on your view, God is not free and does not have the power to do what is impossible. This requires that you accept - in common with most theologians, but contrary to your earlier answer - that God's freedom and power are not unbounded. He does not have the freedom and power to do literally anything.
yes because circle is a human term. I suppose God could change the meaning of circle. But totally stupid questiion.

Badly worded quiz set up by blinded people with one opinion.

You have been awarded the TPM service medal! This is our third highest award for outstanding service on the intellectual battleground.

The fact that you progressed through this activity without suffering many hits and biting no bullets suggests that whilst there are inconsistencies in your beliefs about God, on the whole they are well thought-out.

The direct hits you suffered occurred because some of your answers implied logical contradictions. At the bottom of this page, we have reproduced the analyses of your direct hits. You would have bitten bullets had you responded in ways that required that you held views that most people would have found strange, incredible or unpalatable. However, this did not occur, and consequently, you qualify for our third highest award. Well done!
 
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A scientific proof for God's existence? What a silly thing to ask for. You might as well go looking for polar bears in Woking and, finding none, conclude that polar bears don't exist

Science will find the answers for everything eventually. Look how far we have come in just a few years. We now know the age of the observable Universe and its not a "Steady State" Universe. We know that the Sun is a ball of gas and Sun's create every complex molecule. We also know it takes roughly 4,000,000,000 years for intelligent life to emerge and that the Universe could not have been designed by intelligence as it takes so long to evolve. Science has aswered many questions we had and will continue to do so until we do finally have the Ultimate answer to the Ultimate question. Perhaps the human mind can not currently comprehend. A bit like an insect trying to comprehend the workings of the East India company.
 
I enjoyed it, was a nice little distraction. Nitefly, no they arent. Atheists like myself DO infact believe in lots of things. mavity for example, toberlone and jam are all things I believe exist because there is solid and unasailable evidence that they exist.

No, that question is actually a very good one. Its purpose is to determine whether or not you hold double standards regarding the burden of evidence.

The question does not compare the Loch Ness Monster and God; it simply compares your standards of evidence for one entity against your standards of evidence for another entity. It does not seek to determine whether or not you actually believe in God or the Loch Ness Monster, nor does it ask you if there are grounds for believing in one over the other.


It is not a trap, and it does not claim that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. All it does is to ask you whether it is rational to believe in something despite a complete absence of evidence or argument. If you answer "No" in relation to the Loch Ness Monster, what grounds do you have for answering "Yes" in relation to God? Speaking as a Christian, I do not believe it is rational to believe in God despite a complete absence of evidence or argument.
If I look at my desk, I can quite factually say 'there is not a sandwich on it' - you can say the same for nessie in loch ness. However, I cannot look at my desk and claim 'there is no god' because such a force isn't quantifiable or observable.

In other words, you are implying that if god does exist, I should be able to walk up to he/she/it and pat it on the head.

For the record, I can't pat mavity on the head either.
 
It is not a trap, and it does not claim that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. All it does is to ask you whether it is rational to believe in something despite a complete absence of evidence or argument. If you answer "No" in relation to the Loch Ness Monster, what grounds do you have for answering "Yes" in relation to God?

On an unrelated note, I think this quiz could serve a dual function as a literacy test. Some of the questions are quite complex and require more than a casual skim read. You have to read everything, process it, and ensure that you understand it before attempting to answer the question.
I disagree, the wording of the questions tries to conflate "evidence of absence" in the case of the Loch Ness Monster, with "absence of evidence" in the case of a God, the two are not equivalent situations.

You suggest that the questions have to be read carefully, I had done, and did again just now to check, the question on the Loch Ness Monster includes this "despite years of trying", question 14 says "As long as there are no compelling arguments or evidence", the phrasing of the Loch Ness Monster questions implies that "after years of trying" there are compelling arguments of evidence that the Monster does not exist.

Maybe I have managed to interpret the questions in a different way to you, but based on the above I still fail to see the contradiction they imply.
 
Maybe I have managed to interpret the questions in a different way to you, but based on the above I still fail to see the contradiction they imply.

That's because it does not exist and is worded by people who have one thing in mind and as such is extremely biased.
 
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A fairer question should be, does the lack of evidence of UFOs give reason to believe they do not exist. This is an area in which there is not much evidence either way, and answers between that and, 'does God exist', are a lot more comparable.

equally bad. There is plenty of evidence for UFOs just not Extra terrestrial based UFOs.
 
The loch ness monster is a stupid question as the two are incomparable. One is supposed to live in a loch which has had god knows how many people looking for it. Coupled with the fact that unless there are a family of very stealthy loch ness monsters hiding somewhere, the animal has managed to survive for god knows how many hundreds of years all on its lonesome.

God is based on a greater being that is everywhere and sees everything and is intangible. You cant go down your local pond and look for god. Their reasoning is basically sound but its a retard question. There are plenty of things that you can compare that are very roughly comparable but you wouldnt call them a good comparison.
 
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But you can quantifiably measure the existence of mavity, with God you cannot, or at least cannot yet if we are to assume the existence of some form of deity.

That's right :)

The point that I was trying to make was that you can observe a force, but you cannot observe whatever logic or theory that you subscribe that force to. So, we observe something and we subsequently try to describe it. We happen to have named it mavity.
 
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Since when do I need a quizz to tell meI don't believe in god?

You don't. That's not what the quiz is about.

And to the other religious people on this thread: why are you struggling with the Loch Ness Monster question? What seems to be the problem here?

Nitefly said:
If I look at my desk, I can quite factually say 'there is not a sandwich on it' - you can say the same for nessie in loch ness. However, I cannot look at my desk and claim 'there is no god' because such a force isn't quantifiable or observable.

In other words, you are implying that if god does exist, I should be able to walk up to he/she/it and pat it on the head.

For the record, I can't pat mavity on the head either.

No, that's also wrong. I am not implying that if God does exist, I should be able to walk up to he/she/it and pat it on the head. Evidence can take many forms, and the proof of something can be argued in the absence of tangible qualities.

Remember, the question asked you if you think it is rational to believe in something despite a complete absence of evidence or argument. Notice the qualification: "evidence or argument"; not just "evidence."

The existence of something can be logically and rationally extrapolated from evidence which suggests, implies or demonstrates its existence (ie. mavity, black holes, etc.) The evidence may not constitute overt proof by itself, but it can provide the basis for an argument derived from an interpretation of that evidence.

For example, consider the Battle of Kadesh. This was an epic fight between the ancient Egyptians and Hittites. It was the largest chariot battle in human history, involving ~70,000 combatants. Yet we have no objective evidence that it ever occurred! There are no remnants of bodies, weapons, chariots, armour, or anything which might suggest that this battle took place in the manner described, at the place referred to, between the antagonists named.

In fact, the primary source of our knowledge regarding this battle is an Egyptian historical record which is universally agreed to be grossly exaggerated in favour of the Egyptians.

Thus:


Archaeologists have been unable to verify independently any of the events recounted in the Egyptian and Hittite records of the Battle of Kadesh. Knowledge of the battle is derived entirely from the accounts of Hittite and Egyptian records, both of which disagree with each other (each side claiming victory).

Details of the battle are reconstructed with reasonable certainty by reconciling the conflicting accounts through harmonizing these contradictions. Generally speaking, the nature of the available evidence makes it possible to reconstruct the outcome as portrayed by the Hittites, while gleaning believable details from Ramesses' account wherever possible.

(Source).

So, what evidence is there that the Battle of Kadesh actually took place? In purely objective terms: none whatsoever. But there is evidence of some form (albeit purely textual) and from it we may extrapolate a positive argument for the historicity of the battle. In other words, we have a logical and rational basis for believing that it occurred, despite the absence of tangible evidence.

Now, if we say that we can accept the historicity of the Battle of Kadesh on those grounds, we must accept that this is a yardstick for logical, rational belief in an event or entity; in other words, we can apply it to the question of God's existence as well. To argue that it can only be used in relation to historical events would be to commit the fallacy of special pleading, which would result in logical inconsistency on our part.

:)
 
Once it started referring to God as 'she' I did this::rolleyes:
When it told me that by answering two rather carefully crafted questions a certain way I'd contradicted myself, I gave up! Philosophy isn't semantics.
And if atheism is just wordplay then may God have mercy.
 
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