The god delusion... Religious debate

rghjones said:
I'm an atheist. Why? Because there's no evidence to support the existence of God whatsoever, and most religions are illogical and defy all basic common sense, even for those without it.

PS. Obtaining the audiobook now.
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"Only a fool says in his heart there is no God" (Psalm 14:1)

Romans 1:
20For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],(B)

21Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and [c]godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.

22Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves].

Read The Dawkins Delusion as well.
 
simisker said:
Quoting the fictional character Spock in a religious debate?! I can't determine whether that's risible or genius :D
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;)

ryujinjakka said:
cus imo who cares what happens after death, i just want to enjoy my life and not think about what awaits since its impossible to ever know.
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Pretty much everyone I know that is mature (not saying you're not).
 
I've read the book, it was ok, certainly not anything groundbreaking but then again I don't think it was meant to be.

I'm still somewhere between agnostic and atheist, nobody knows if a god or gods exist and I don't think we will anytime soon, if ever. I wouldn't follow a belief in the same way I wouldn't hand over money to someone who claimed to tell me the secret to becoming a millionaire, to take a leap of faith if you will. I prefer to see facts before I commit to anything.
 
Darkst4r said:
the ancient pyramids at Giza could not have been built by man in such a short space of time and with such accuracy (we couldnt even reproduce them today) ,
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If you've ever stood in front of the Pyramids you will see the 1000s of mistakes.
Go do some research before dishonoring the ancient Egyptians and their awesome building skills.
 
Darkst4r said:
he ancient pyramids at Giza could not have been built by man in such a short space of time and with such accuracy .
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Rubbish, they could build them and with very simple tools to that degree.
Yes we can build them today and with a better finish. It would just cost an insane amount.
 
You lot just go round and round in circles constantly you know that? It's quite amusing to read.

I don't believe in 'God' in the Christian sense....Could I believe in God in the form of a different religion? I don't know, because I've never had to follow or experienced a different religion.

However, I do believe that 'something' caused the big bang...If that was some random atom or whatever the current theory is, then hey.

I also believe in evolution, because we have actual physical evidence of this.

I, personally, just cannot devote my life to something that does not really 'exist' as such, and is only based on text, that has been written by God knows how many people (exscuse the wording there), and changed to their liking.
 
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gurusan said:
How did an atom cause the big bang when there were none around til quite "some time" after it?
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Have you read my post? I even said "whatever the theory is" as I do not know the exact scientific terms as to how the big bang happened...I used Atom as a word to describe it, not as pure evidence or fact.
 
I did read your post and pointed out an error in it and you have obviously just gone on to ignore it.

Anyway, no biggie.
 
gurusan said:
I did read your post and pointed out an error in it and you have obviously just gone on to ignore it.

Anyway, no biggie.
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You pointed out an error (Which I even acknowledged was possibly an error in the first place) and carried on pointing out that fact? :confused:

This is why I did not post in here for ages, because people just can not read something, and give you a half decent response without scrutinising the poster.

Never mind.
 
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might as well :) .....

I personally don't believe in god. I have 'tried' as it were having attended prep school and my senior school where church was mandatory 3 times a week and every one else did believe. But i don't.

I have no problem with people believing in what they want to be believe. The whole point of freedom of choice etc. I think on some level religion can be great for teaching certain morals etc on how to behave, especially to other people ( which seems to be lacking in this country at the moment ). I have however a problem with people claiming that their view is the one and only and anything else you believe is wrong. I have met quite a few Christians in my time who are very aggressive about trying to nail home their point which seems a little hippocratic to me and for an extreme example that westfield baptist church who picket funerals of dead soldiers etc

I do however think that religion should be something that the individual finds rather than being essential brought up into a religion ( as that is essential the parents making a decision for their children for, probably, the rest of there lives ). I also have a problem with religion affecting politics, especially strong religious beliefs. The two should definitely remain seperate. haven't some of the worst bloodshed been in the name of religion ?

As for the meaning of life. I think ultimately it is just to reproduce. We have just evolved to the point where we start asking questions. Im sure your dog or cat doesn't sit around asking such things. All they care about is food/sleep/sex. So we ask questions to justify our existence and in doing so create ideals to make our selves happy because there has to be a reason ..... but does there ?

At the end of the day no one will ever prove who is right or wrong and to people will just defend their beliefs to the hilt. Something which seems especially apparent A.) on the internet and B.) on OcUK.

Just my two bits :)
 
cman said:
"Only a fool says in his heart there is no God" (Psalm 14:1)

Romans 1:
20For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],(B)

21Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and [c]godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.

22Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves].

Read The Dawkins Delusion as well.
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I love how the Bible calls most Nobel Laureates "fools".

In short: "Don't believe in God? You're stupid."

Oh, but the atheists are the arrogant ones.
 
dargab said:
I love how the Bible calls most Nobel Laureates "fools".

In short: "Don't believe in God? You're stupid."

Oh, but the atheists are the arrogant ones.
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The Bible doesn't call Nobel Laureates fools, and even if it did, the Bible wasn't written by a God.

Also, fyi, Francis Collins led the Human Genome Project (HGP) and is known as "one of the most accomplished scientists of our time". He may even receive the Nobel prize in many years to come. He is incredibly religious (theistic evolution).

During a debate with the biologist Richard Dawkins, Collins stated that God is the explanation of those features of the universe that science finds difficult to explain (such as the values of certain physical constants favoring life), and that God himself does not need an explanation since he is beyond the universe. Dawkins called this "the mother and father of all cop-outs" and "an incredible evasion of the responsibility to explain", to which Collins responded "I do object to the assumption that anything that might be outside of nature is ruled out of the conversation. That's an impoverished view of the kinds of questions we humans can ask, such as 'Why am I here?', 'What happens after we die?' If you refuse to acknowledge their appropriateness, you end up with a zero probability of God after examining the natural world because it doesn't convince you on a proof basis. But if your mind is open about whether God might exist, you can point to aspects of the universe that are consistent with that conclusion.
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cman said:
"Only a fool says in his heart there is no God" (Psalm 14:1)

Romans 1:
20For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],(B)

21Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and [c]godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.

22Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves].

Read The Dawkins Delusion as well.
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Quoting the Bible to disprove/call foolish atheism isn't exactly the most compelling or unbias of arguments is it :rolleyes:.

"Only a fool says in his heart there is definitely a God" (Russell 13:06)
 
meghatronic said:
The Bible doesn't call Nobel Laureates fools, and even if it did, the Bible wasn't written by a God.

Also, fyi, Francis Collins led the Human Genome Project (HGP) and is known as "one of the most accomplished scientists of our time". He may even receive the Nobel prize in many years to come. He is incredibly religious (theistic evolution).
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Well it does actually because most of them are not theistic.

Francis Collins? What a joke. First of all, he's a highly accomplished administrator, i'll hand him that. He's not a very good scientist though,for example he doubts that morality and altruism could have evolved and this has been shown in scientific studies. He doesn't understand evolution in general, which is pathetic for a scientist.

Finally, I don't care if a scientist is also religious. People can hold two opposing viewpoints, and it does seem rather convenient how theistic scientists carefully tuck away all their religious nonsense when working. Also I don't accept things based on who's saying it, I don't accept arguments from authority. But that's another discussion ;)

Just take a look at his site, BioLogos. Funny stuff, to say the least.

P.S - Quoting a book telling me I'm foolish doesn't really help. Honestly it's rather petty and unimpressive.
 
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dargab said:
Well it does actually because most of them are not theistic.

Francis Collins? What a joke. First of all, he's a highly accomplished administrator, i'll hand him that. He's not a very good scientist though
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I am not entering into a debate on this as you clearly don't understand the way academic science works. "Administrator"? Lols.
 
bitslice said:
I really don't get why people want to disprove peoples beliefs for the sake of it,
it's such a completely sad and joyless occupation.
Can't the plonker make money from a proper writing job instead of being a nasty little parasite :rolleyes:
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Yeah i don't understand why we would want to know the truth about wars throughout history, about the best way to make people happy etc.

Truth matters on its own, if you do not recognize that fact you're undoubtedly a relativist, and we really have nothing to talk about.
 
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