Autodromo Nazionale Monza - Italian Grand Prix 2009 - Race 13/17

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Please keep all discussion about 2010 rules, drivers, teams, fota vs fia argument and anything else 2010 related in this thread ***Official F1 2010***


TV times:
Friday 11 September
First practice: 0900-1030, BBC Red Button/online & BBC Radio 5 Live sports extra/online
Second practice: 1300-1430, BBC Red Button/online & BBC Radio 5 Live sports extra/online

Inside F1: 1830-1845, BBC News Channel, then repeated on the Red Button

Saturday 12 September
Third practice: 1000-1100, BBC Red Button/online & BBC Radio 5 Live sports extra/online

Qualifying: 1210-1415, BBC One/BBC Red Button/Radio 5 Live/online
Qualifying re-run: 1600-1200 Sunday, BBC Red Button (times and services vary on Freeview)

Sunday 13 September
Race: 1210-1520, BBC One/BBC Red Button/Radio 5 Live/online
Race re-run: 1620-1600 Tuesday, BBC Red Button (times and services vary on Freeview)

Interactive Forum: 1520-1620, BBC Red Button/online

Highlights: 1900-2000, BBC Three/BBC Red Button/online
0230-0325, BBC Three/BBC Red Button
Standings:
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Track:


Track Diagram
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Corner names
1/2 – Rettifilio Tribune
3 – Curva Grande
4/5 – Variante della Roggia
6 – Lesmo 1
7 – Lesmo 2
8/9/10 – Variante Ascari
11 – Parabolica

BBC Formula 1 circuit guides - 2009

Circuit information
2008 tyres: Hard (prime, no stripe), Medium (option, stripe)

Full throttle: 70%
Top speed in race: 351kph
Longest flat-out section: 16 seconds / 1,320m

Tyre wear: low
Brake wear: very high
Downforce level: very low
Gear changes per lap: 46

Weather Forecast
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The forecast is there should be no repeat of last year’s unusually wet weather at Monza for the Italian Grand Prix this weekend.

Three days of hot, dry weather with temperatures reaching the 30s are expected.

Only a few sites are predicting any chance of rain – AccuWeather gives a low chance of light rain on Saturday evening and WeatherBug says something similar for Friday.

On the whole, expect the usual summer sunshine at Monza. Last year’s weather was exceptionally unusual – until then the Italian Grand Prix had only seen occasional splashes of rain in 1981 and 2004.

The entire weekend last year was drenched, with rain so heavy that one practice session was stopped early. Sebastian Vettel scored his maiden win from pole position.

Monza - a Formula One set-up guide
A top Formula One team assesses Monza ahead of this weekend's Italian Grand Prix.

The Italian GP provides today's Formula One cars with perhaps the most severe test of the year. Nowhere is tougher on the engine or the brakes and the teams have to prepare a special package to cope with the unique challenge of Monza. And while it may look deceptively simple for the drivers, the circuit only gives away its secrets slowly, and the challenge of consistently finding the limit in low downforce configuration demands skill and finesse.

Aerodynamics
Monza is the fastest circuit on the calendar with an average speed of around 250 km/h and demands the development of a one-off aerodynamic package in order to attain competitive top speeds of around 340 km/h. This is often termed an 'ultra low downforce' package, but the critical parameter is actually drag, and namely minimising its effects in order to achieve target top speeds.

In the wind tunnel, the teams concentrate on ultra-efficient wing designs, which often vary quite significantly up and down the pit-lane. Naturally, these efficient low-drag wings also produce less downforce. The Monza aero package generates approximately 10 per cent to 15 per cent less downforce than the package used at the last race in Spa.

Suspension
Mechanical grip, stability and ride are major set-up parameters in Monza. This is firstly because the low downforce levels place a premium on mechanical grip, secondly because good braking stability is essential as the drivers spend nearly 15 per cent of the lap on the brakes, and thirdly to ensure the drivers can use the kerbs aggressively in the chicanes in order to gain lap time.

The set-up compromise must provide the drivers with a good change of direction in the low and medium-speed chicanes, while also ensuring strong traction exiting the slower corners. Equally, it is important to achieve good braking stability in order that the drivers can attack the heavy braking zones with confidence. The engineers will try and run the cars as low as possible for maximum aerodynamic performance. To avoid 'touching' at high speeds, when the bottom of the car effectively drags along the ground, we use bump rubbers in the suspension and the car will 'sit' on these at high speed.

As Fernando Alonso explains: "The Ascari chicane is one of the most enjoyable parts of the lap. You need to be aggressive under braking and then very smooth with the steering and throttle application through turns nine and 10. The key to being quick is to take the straightest possible line, but it's not easy as the car always feels light with such low downforce and wants to oversteer on the exit of turn eight. As with all the chicanes in Monza, carrying good exit speed out of turn 10 is important so you don't come under pressure on the approach to Parabolica."

Brakes
The cars spend nearly 15 per cent of the lap braking, meaning this is an area in which lap-time can be gained. The mechanical set-up will be tweaked to improve the driver's confidence in the car's braking stability, while the braking system itself is accorded special attention.

The brakes are worked very hard at Monza, with the highest braking energies of the season, particularly into turn one where the drivers experience braking forces that peak at 4.5G. The cars must negotiate four big braking events from over 320 km/h, and special attention is paid to brake cooling to ensure optimum performance for minimal drag penalty.

Alonso: "The biggest braking zone of the lap is turn one, which is a very tricky corner as you have to slow the car from over 340 km/h to 60 km/h. It's easy to lock a wheel under braking and run wide which will cost you a lot of lap time. You also need to use the kerbs to straight-line the chicane as much as possible. It is possible to overtake here if you get a good slipstream down the main straight and dive down the inside."

Engine
Monza has always been known as the ultimate test of an F1 engine. The engines spend 75 per cent of the lap at full throttle, significantly above the season average of 62 per cent. Furthermore, the engine must be capable of operating effectively over a 275 km/h range, from a maximum speed of around 340 km/h on the pit straight to the minimum speed of around 65 km/h in the first chicane.

The longest time spent at full throttle is around 15.5 seconds, from the exit of the Parabolica to the braking point at the first chicane. The engine mapping must provide the drivers with good power delivery from low speed, and is also tuned for smooth high-speed response on the exit of corners such as Parabolica.

Reliability
In addition to the challenge of the heavy workload Monza imposes on the engine, the slow chicanes pose challenges for engine reliability. The drivers must use the kerbs aggressively to carry good speed through the corners, but there is a risk of excessive use of the rev limiter when the cars are in the air, and transmission damage when the spinning wheels land.

Engine ancillaries must also be monitored to ensure they can withstand the severe demands of a lap at Monza.
Renault F1 Team

Classic Monza Grand Prix
Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1988
Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1988 extended highlights
Watch highlights from the 1988 Italian Grand Prix as Ferrari duo Gerhard Berger and Michele Alboreto claim an emotional one-two at Monza only a month after the death of Enzo Ferrari.

Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1990
Watch highlights as from the 1990 Italian Grand Prix as McLaren's Ayrton Senna wins at Monza while Derek Warwick walks away unscathed from a massive crash on the first lap.

Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1995
Watch highlights from the 1995 Italian Grand Prix as Damon Hill and Michael Schumacher do battle again and Johnny Herbert takes the chequered flag at Monza.

Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1999
Watch highlights from the 1999 Italian Grand Prix as Mika Hakkinen famously loses the lead and his cool as Heinz-Harald Frentzen profits to win in Monza for Jordan.

Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 2004
Watch highlights from the 2004 Italian Grand Prix as Rubens Barrichello and Michael Schumacher fight their way through the field to claim a Ferrari one-two at Monza.

Technical Changes - Belgium Grand Prix
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MonzaTeam Previews

Italian Grand Prix - team and driver preview quotes
With top speeds reaching 350km/h, and home to Ferrari ‘superfans’, the Tifosi, Monza is one of the most thrilling Formula One venues on the calendar. Historic and quick, the drivers love it. Along with senior team members, they discuss their prospects...




News

  • Bigger kerbs installed for Monza chicanes
    The FIA have confirmed that Monza will feature higher kerbs for this year’s Italian Grand Prix in a bid to stop drivers cutting the track’s famous high-speed chicanes.
  • Massa: "Jenson needs to deal with pressure better"
    Jenson Button is buckling under the pressure of his bid for the 2009 world championship, according to the runner-up of last year's title fight.
  • Brawn hopes to combat KERS cars
    Ross Brawn is confident the BGP 001’s braking and traction strengths, along with its Mercedes engine, will help the team try and combat the “significance advantage” he expects KERS cars to have at Monza.
  • Race return holds no fear for Massa
    Felipe Massa insists he has no fears about returning to Formula 1 next year once he has fully recovered from the injuries he sustained in his accident in Hungary in July.
  • Renault confirms KERS return for Monza
    Renault has decided to bring its Kinetic Energy Recovery System back into service at this weekend’s Italian Grand Prix.
  • Trulli hopes qualifying struggles are over
    Jarno Trulli is optimistic that the dramatically improved form Toyota showed at the Belgian Grand Prix will carry over to his home race in Italy this weekend.
  • Fisi ‘can’t believe’ dream has come true
    Giancarlo Fisichella admits he still hasn’t taken in the news that his lifelong dream of racing for Ferrari is set to become a reality at the Italian Grand Prix in just over a week’s time.
  • Fisi pleased to have Massa’s backing
    Ferrari’s new signing Giancarlo Fisichella says he has received Felipe Massa’s full backing after being chosen as the Brazilian's stand-in for the remainder of the season.
  • Massa to call first son Felipe
    Felipe Massa and his wife Rafaela will name their first child after his Ferrari-driving father.
  • Massa to campaign for accident improvements
    Felipe Massa has vowed to push for changes in formula one in order to prevent a repeat of his freak accident during qualifying for July's Hungarian grand prix.
  • Massa back in hospital
    Felipe Massa is currently in Sao Paulo's Albert Einstein hospital, following more than four hours of skull surgery on Monday.

Liuzzi gets Force India call-up
Force India has promoted its reserve driver Tonio Liuzzi into the race team to take the seat left vacant by Giancarlo Fisichella's move to Ferrari.

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The track and TV coverage starts

Technical changes Monza

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Practice 1
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Hamilton sets the pace in Monza
Lewis Hamilton topped the timesheets in practice for the Italian Grand Prix as McLaren caught the eye at sunny Monza.

Replay - Italian GP first practice
Watch the first practice session in full from Monza.



Practice 2
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Highlights - Italian GP second practice
Force India's Adrian Sutil sets the fastest time of the day in Italy as Giancarlo Fisichello suffers mixed fortunes in his first outing for Ferrari.

Replay - Italian GP second practice
Watch the second practice session at Monza in full.


Practice 3
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Sutil fastest in final practice
Adrian Sutil topped the timesheets for the second time at the Italian Grand Prix, beating title hopeful Jenson Button in Saturday's final practice.


Qualifying
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Highlights -Italian GP qualifying
Lewis Hamilton claims pole position for the Italian Grand Prix at Monza ahead of Force India's Adrian Sutil and Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen.

Hamilton storms to Italian pole
Lewis Hamilton produced a stunning late lap to snatch pole position for the Italian Grand Prix in his McLaren.

Interview - top three drivers on grid
McLaren's Lewis Hamilton is on pole for the Italian GP, with Force India's Adrian Sutil second on the grid and Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen in third.

Replay - Hamilton's in-car pole lap
Watch a replay of the lap that secured pole position for Lewis Hamilton at the Italian Grand Prix at Monza.

Brawn happy with qualifying
Ross Brawn and his drivers, Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button, are pleased with the team's qualifying performance for the Italian GP at Monza, after securing fifth and sixth place on the grid.

Fuel Loads
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Race
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Highlights - Italian Grand Prix
Rubens Barrichello wins the Italian Grand Prix ahead of team-mate Jenson Button as Lewis Hamilton crashes out of third on the last lap.

Italian GP top three drivers interviews
Rubens Barrichello reflects on winning his second race of the season at Monza ahead of team-mate Jenson Button and Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen.

Barrichello praises 'fantastic strategy'
Rubens Barrichello believes it was his Brawn team's race strategy that ultimately led to their one-two result at the Italian Grand Prix.

Button happy with return to podium
Jenson Button feels more positive about his championship push after finishing second at the Italian Grand Prix behind team-mate Rubens Barrichello.

Brawn thrilled with Monza one-two
Brawn Team principal Ross Brawn is delighted after Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button finish first and second in the Italian Grand Prix and looks forward to both drivers battling for the title in the four remaining races.

Hamilton apologises for last-lap crash
McLaren's Lewis Hamilton apologises after a final-lap crash puts him out of the points and costs him a podium finish in the Italian Grand Prix.



Standings
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Last edited:
Going to go for another Ferrari win in this one :)
Will be a really close race and interesting to see where Force India are this weekend!
 
Force India have been busy doing a straight line test again (last week) so could be up there again this weekend.

Button really needs a podium to more or less seal the championship.
 
I'm thinking this is a weekend for Mclaren. We know it's got half decent traction, we know its fast in a straight line, its got KERS and we know Hamilton is going to be able to use it well (assuming he's not rammed off by a rookie)

Other than Hamilton I'd be looking at Kimi for the win, with Force India and Brawn with the Mclaren engines being worth watching :)
 
I doubt mclaren will get much of a look in tbh unless they have magically solved the lack of high speed/low downforce grip.

Ferrari win again I think with the possibility of Force India doing well also.


Current odds for win said:
K.Raikkonen (Ferrari) 4/1
L.Hamilton (McLaren) 9/2
S.Vettel (Red Bull) 5/1
M.Webber (Red Bull) 13/2
G.Fisichella (Ferrari) 10/1
J.Button (Brawn GP) 10/1
R.Barrichello (Brawn GP) 12/1
F.Alonso (Renault) 16/1
H.Kovalainen (McLaren) 16/1
R.Kubica (BMW Sauber) 20/1
A.Sutil (Force India) 25/1
J.Trulli (Toyota) 25/1
N.Heidfeld (BMW Sauber)25/1
T.Glock (Toyota) 33/1
N.Rosberg (Williams) 40/1
V.Liuzzi (Force India) 100/1
R.Grosjean (Renault) 125/1
K.Nakajima (Williams) 200/1
S.Buemi (Toro Rosso) 200/1
J.Alguersuari (Toro Rosso)250/1
 
Last edited:
I doubt mclaren will get much of a look in tbh unless they have magically solved the lack of high speed/low downforce grip.

Afaik Mclaren have only ever had an issue with high speed cornering not the low speed, at Monza everyone will be using very little downforce so I would be VERY surprised if Mclaren have an issue here. Especially when they coped absolutely fine at Hungaroring and weren't too bad at Spa.
This track is suited to the Mclaren without a shadow of doubt.
 
I can see both Ferrari and McLaren doing well here, be interesting to see where Force India are, as well as Brawn and Red Bull of course.

The Non-KERS cars might have an insurmountable obstacle here though, Renault with KERS as well to make it worse...
 
I wish him the best - but I really wish Massa would shut his trap about title pressure (something he really knows nothing about at all, seeing as he has never won the title himself and lucked into a decent position end of last season)

I can see both Ferrari and McLaren doing well here, be interesting to see where Force India are, as well as Brawn and Red Bull of course.

The Non-KERS cars might have an insurmountable obstacle here though, Renault with KERS as well to make it worse...

What I said in the 2010 thread as soon as Renault decided to use KERS again - however after thinking about it, a decent lap does depend on good traction and breaking ability also - if a non-KERS car is better in these areas it might be reasonably easy to stay ahead / get ahead of some of the back running KERS cars

Im so depserate to see a decent race again - its been farrrr too long since the last one

Button really needs a podium to more or less seal the championship.

Dont agree with that - two wins would seal it, but I think he needs a decent race here to get him back on the trail (if he can win here all the better, but I think that unlikely, despite what I said above a KERS car will probably win this weekend)

Always thought just over 90 points will probably win the title - cant see it being much less than that
 
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BUT OMG the sound from the 1988 cars.. :D pure awesomeness..

'88 was a fantastic race. First Italian GP after Enzo's passing, a season that had seen McLaren win every race up to that point, and what happens? Prost's engine goes sick, Senna gets clobbered by an errant lapped car, and the Ferraris streak home to a glorious 1-2. Utterly fabulous.
 
Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1988
Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1988 extended highlights
Watch highlights from the 1988 Italian Grand Prix as Ferrari duo Gerhard Berger and Michele Alboreto claim an emotional one-two at Monza only a month after the death of Enzo Ferrari.

Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1990
Watch highlights as from the 1990 Italian Grand Prix as McLaren's Ayrton Senna wins at Monza while Derek Warwick walks away unscathed from a massive crash on the first lap.

Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1995
Watch highlights from the 1995 Italian Grand Prix as Damon Hill and Michael Schumacher do battle again and Johnny Herbert takes the chequered flag at Monza.

Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 1999
Watch highlights from the 1999 Italian Grand Prix as Mika Hakkinen famously loses the lead and his cool as Heinz-Harald Frentzen profits to win in Monza for Jordan.

Classic F1 - Italian Grand Prix 2004
Watch highlights from the 2004 Italian Grand Prix as Rubens Barrichello and Michael Schumacher fight their way through the field to claim a Ferrari one-two at Monza.
 
A top Formula One team assesses Monza ahead of this weekend's Italian Grand Prix.

The Italian GP provides today's Formula One cars with perhaps the most severe test of the year. Nowhere is tougher on the engine or the brakes and the teams have to prepare a special package to cope with the unique challenge of Monza. And while it may look deceptively simple for the drivers, the circuit only gives away its secrets slowly, and the challenge of consistently finding the limit in low downforce configuration demands skill and finesse.

Aerodynamics
Monza is the fastest circuit on the calendar with an average speed of around 250 km/h and demands the development of a one-off aerodynamic package in order to attain competitive top speeds of around 340 km/h. This is often termed an 'ultra low downforce' package, but the critical parameter is actually drag, and namely minimising its effects in order to achieve target top speeds.

In the wind tunnel, the teams concentrate on ultra-efficient wing designs, which often vary quite significantly up and down the pit-lane. Naturally, these efficient low-drag wings also produce less downforce. The Monza aero package generates approximately 10 per cent to 15 per cent less downforce than the package used at the last race in Spa.

Suspension
Mechanical grip, stability and ride are major set-up parameters in Monza. This is firstly because the low downforce levels place a premium on mechanical grip, secondly because good braking stability is essential as the drivers spend nearly 15 per cent of the lap on the brakes, and thirdly to ensure the drivers can use the kerbs aggressively in the chicanes in order to gain lap time.

The set-up compromise must provide the drivers with a good change of direction in the low and medium-speed chicanes, while also ensuring strong traction exiting the slower corners. Equally, it is important to achieve good braking stability in order that the drivers can attack the heavy braking zones with confidence. The engineers will try and run the cars as low as possible for maximum aerodynamic performance. To avoid 'touching' at high speeds, when the bottom of the car effectively drags along the ground, we use bump rubbers in the suspension and the car will 'sit' on these at high speed.

As Fernando Alonso explains: "The Ascari chicane is one of the most enjoyable parts of the lap. You need to be aggressive under braking and then very smooth with the steering and throttle application through turns nine and 10. The key to being quick is to take the straightest possible line, but it's not easy as the car always feels light with such low downforce and wants to oversteer on the exit of turn eight. As with all the chicanes in Monza, carrying good exit speed out of turn 10 is important so you don't come under pressure on the approach to Parabolica."

Brakes
The cars spend nearly 15 per cent of the lap braking, meaning this is an area in which lap-time can be gained. The mechanical set-up will be tweaked to improve the driver's confidence in the car's braking stability, while the braking system itself is accorded special attention.

The brakes are worked very hard at Monza, with the highest braking energies of the season, particularly into turn one where the drivers experience braking forces that peak at 4.5G. The cars must negotiate four big braking events from over 320 km/h, and special attention is paid to brake cooling to ensure optimum performance for minimal drag penalty.

Alonso: "The biggest braking zone of the lap is turn one, which is a very tricky corner as you have to slow the car from over 340 km/h to 60 km/h. It's easy to lock a wheel under braking and run wide which will cost you a lot of lap time. You also need to use the kerbs to straight-line the chicane as much as possible. It is possible to overtake here if you get a good slipstream down the main straight and dive down the inside."

Engine
Monza has always been known as the ultimate test of an F1 engine. The engines spend 75 per cent of the lap at full throttle, significantly above the season average of 62 per cent. Furthermore, the engine must be capable of operating effectively over a 275 km/h range, from a maximum speed of around 340 km/h on the pit straight to the minimum speed of around 65 km/h in the first chicane.

The longest time spent at full throttle is around 15.5 seconds, from the exit of the Parabolica to the braking point at the first chicane. The engine mapping must provide the drivers with good power delivery from low speed, and is also tuned for smooth high-speed response on the exit of corners such as Parabolica.

Reliability
In addition to the challenge of the heavy workload Monza imposes on the engine, the slow chicanes pose challenges for engine reliability. The drivers must use the kerbs aggressively to carry good speed through the corners, but there is a risk of excessive use of the rev limiter when the cars are in the air, and transmission damage when the spinning wheels land.

Engine ancillaries must also be monitored to ensure they can withstand the severe demands of a lap at Monza.
Renault F1 Team
 
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