record industry bosses over school anti-piracy lessons

Basher said:
Of course there are rights involved. No one has the right to illegally download music. Can't afford it? Strive to be more successful.
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I admit downloading music is almost too easy.

I think when we look back in time, we will see the internet as it is now as the "wild west" days of it. It will eventually become more and more restricted, just like our civil rights.


I say enjoy it while it lasts, everything comes to an end.
 
Basher said:
Of course there are rights involved. No one has the right to illegally download music. Can't afford it? Strive to be more successful.
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No there aren't, they're being supplied it easily.

Take note of my analogy because it looks like you're skirting around it as it'd invalidate the point you're trying so hard to make.

The shoes issue. If some one was making perfect copies of shoes and giving them out for free, are the people being given the shoes "taking things illegally"? No they aren't.

People who don't understand copyright law express too many opinions on it when they don't really understand what they're talking about.
 
kylew said:
But then that brings up the point of "where's the issue then"?
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The issue is that, if left unchecked, it hurts the profits of record companies which is why they spend lots of money fighting it. If they didn't fight it then it would be even easier to download music and no-one would be buying albums.
No it isn't the same as stealing and obviously someone who downloads a few grands worth of tracks might not have purchased all of them if the downloads weren't available - however they might have purchased some of them and if everyone downloaded instead of paying then the record companies would be screwed.

If a few odd people jump the fence at Glastonbury and get in without a ticket you can ask where is the crime? They're not hurting anyone, no-one has lost anything as they might not have bought a ticket anyway, its not stealing etc.... All fair comments though doesn't justify it. The organisers are perfectly entitled to put up a fence and hire security, hire people to check tickets, because if they didn't then no-one would pay and the whole thing wouldn't be feasible.

Same with music in general, if they don't fight people trying to get hold of their stuff for free then everyone would be doing it.
 
Just for general info:

Civil law - Where individuals sues individuals
Criminal law - Where the state prosecutes individuals

Piracy is a civil act, and the record companies will sue you. It isn't "illigal", as that's a criminal term.
 
kylew said:
I'm not, I'm saying cool it on the accusations of people who download "pirated" media.

The complaints should be at the uploaders, and the industry. When you can get a better product for free then why do you think most people turn to piracy? 9 times out of 10, a pirated version is superior to the original in every way.
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Complaints should be at the people who are taking copies of IP they're not entitled to whether uploading or downloading. Just because you don't upload/distribute the stuff doesn't mean you're justified in downloading stuff.
 
dowie said:
The issue is that, if left unchecked, it hurts the profits of record companies which is why they spend lots of money fighting it. If they didn't fight it then it would be even easier to download music and no-one would be buying albums.
No it isn't the same as stealing and obviously someone who downloads a few grands worth of tracks might not have purchased all of them if the downloads weren't available - however they might have purchased some of them and if everyone downloaded instead of paying then the record companies would be screwed.

If a few odd people jump the fence at Glastonbury and get in without a ticket you can ask where is the crime? They're not hurting anyone, no-one has lost anything as they might not have bought a ticket anyway, its not stealing etc.... All fair comments though doesn't justify it. The organisers are perfectly entitled to put up a fence and hire security, hire people to check tickets, because if they didn't then no-one would pay and the whole thing wouldn't be feasible.

Same with music in general, if they don't fight people trying to get hold of their stuff for free then everyone would be doing it.
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It's already beyond a joke at how easy it is to download anything you want.
 
Downloading without paying without the copyright holder's consent is morally wrong, albeit not actually illegal.

And it's certainly not "theft", it's copyright infringement. Never mind your lost revenue argument, that's rubbish.
 
lambda said:
Just for general info:

Civil law - Where individuals sues individuals
Criminal law - Where the state prosecutes individuals

Piracy is a civil act, and the record companies will sue you. It isn't "illigal", as that's a criminal term.
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:rolleyes: ahem....

On 28th July four members of a criminal network involved in a multi-million pound film piracy 'industry' have been jailed for a total of eighteen years at Southwark Crown Court.

The gang knowingly provided a 'one stop shop' supply service for other criminal gangs producing and selling counterfeit DVDs in London and the South East, with international links.
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http://www.bva.org.uk/news-press-releases/eighteen-years-piracy-criminal-network
 
kylew said:
The complaints should be at the uploaders, and the industry. When you can get a better product for free then why do you think most people turn to piracy? 9 times out of 10, a pirated version is superior to the original in every way.
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The vast bulk of downloaders don't care that it's a superior product, only that it's a free product.
 
Cybermyk said:
I don't think anyone has a problem with paying the artists. It's just nobody wants to pay the over inflated prices of the money grabbing, manipulative, talent stifling dinosaurs.
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So if you can’t afford to pay for it you steal it, game set and match. :p
 
dowie said:
Complaints should be at the people who are taking copies of IP they're not entitled to whether uploading or downloading. Just because you don't upload/distribute the stuff doesn't mean you're justified in downloading stuff.
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It's not taking. Please acknowledge my analogy, it appears it's getting ignored because it'd mean people would have to face the truth of what it is.

There is no justification about it. No one has to justify themselves for download music.

The issue is the people uploading it, they're making it accessible to others to download.

People don't get in to trouble for downloading, the only people who have been successfully sued have been done for uploading.

There's nothing they can do about those downloading other than intimidate them with letters that wouldn't hold up in a court of law.
 
kylew said:
People don't get in to trouble for downloading, the only people who have been successfully sued have been done for uploading.
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so what

just because you're not likely to face any reprisals doesn't mean you're justified in doing it - its still wrong!
 
vonhelmet said:
The vast bulk of downloaders don't care that it's a superior product, only that it's a free product.
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I know, but the record industry are basically competing with the pirates for the best service.

Once they're offering something better, a lot of people who would otherwise download, would at least re-consider it.
 
D D Danneh said:
Then stealing is OK? Only costs them a few pence.

I know the consequences and terms are different, but morally speaking?
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Of course stealing isn't OK, even if the amount you steal is only a few pence.

But music piracy is not theft. Theft requires the removal of someone else's property with an intent to permanently deprive them of it. Copying music doesn't deprive the copyright holder of that music in the same way that physical theft does, as they still have their copy. That's why people come up with arguments about theft of a right to revenue or whatever, but that's not an item that can be stolen - it is a right stemming from the holding of intellectual property, the copyright, so an infringement of that right is - TADA! - copyright infringement.
 
Tefal said:
Selling pirated media is a criminal offence downloading it is a civil offence.

Different things :)


So have a :rolleyes:
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might want to quote my whole post where I was refering to someone making a broad statement that 'piracy is not a crime' - of course you chose to ignore that so have one back :p :rolleyes:
 
kylew said:
I know, but the record industry are basically competing with the pirates for the best service.

Once they're offering something better, a lot of people who would otherwise download, would at least re-consider it.
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But like I said, it's only a better service in the sense that it's free, and it's only free because it's illegal.
 
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