Amature track car project - Advice needed

I would want something far smaller and lighter for the track than a bmw.

I know they're nice etc, I just would be far more interested in something more fun/original.
 
With ref to 'slow' on the track and yourr driving ability - it means jack. You'll be running semi-slick tyres, better suspension, less weight and will find that a decent setup on a smaller, lighter and less-powerful car will run rings around something massively powerful. Once you can handle it in the corners, THEN work on the power. You are coming in as people who aren't mechanics and want to start messing with an M3? Bin the M3 and it will get VERY expensive.
 
Kitchster_uk said:
As track ametuers, something along the MR2 (mk1) or mx5. You'll pick up the former for 500, the latter for a grand in running condition. The MX5 can be turbo'd or supercharged, the '2 will take an sc engine, a mk2 tubby or a 3l V6 from a camry. Read Vix thread on their track activities.

Until you can consistantly get the most out of 120-140bhp/tonne, there is no point going for more powah. Learn to drive first, it will mean you'll get more out of the experience.

The two mentioned will also be a good start mechanically. You can't expect to start messing around with turbo nutter machines and get it right.
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This is exactly what I have done with my first track car. I have a mk1 mr2 which I enjoy more throwing around the corners than gunning it in a straight line. Not that I wouldn't mind a bit more go on a long straight mind :D I still have loads to learn but it was a cheap and quick way to get racing.

kaiowas said:
Running turbo nutter japmobiles on track can get very expensive, very quickly when you don't really get that much extra enjoyment from having big power on tap. Sticking to something na will be much less bother.
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Fully agreed, from the sprinting series that we did this year the turbo guys had horrific running costs. There was one chap quoting 6-7k running costs for the season and he was mid table :eek: Whereas mine was about 1.5k all in :)
 
Kitchster_uk said:
With ref to 'slow' on the track and yourr driving ability - it means jack. You'll be running semi-slick tyres, better suspension, less weight and will find that a decent setup on a smaller, lighter and less-powerful car will run rings around something massively powerful. Once you can handle it in the corners, THEN work on the power. You are coming in as people who aren't mechanics and want to start messing with an M3? Bin the M3 and it will get VERY expensive.
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Good advice.
 
Dr Who said:
Because 0-60 is usually dependant on how many gearchanges to 60 mph and how much traction from standstill. The Golf DSG is a good example of this as the DSG cuts the 0-60 time with a faster gearchange.

In real world, that means a car with less gearchanges and rwd has an advantage for 0-60 but that usually doesn't translate to better laptimes than something else with similar power, weight and grip which may have a way inferior 0-60 because it needs 3rd gear.

Power:weight>paper times for track use.

One last thing, final drive ratio! Most cars are geared for too high a top speed for track use, so a car you can lower final drive ratio easily is also a good thing.

PS. Don't want FWD but considser a Golf???

Any car you will do a lot of work on will help you learn if you are meticulous.
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Oh I see! Is it hard to change the gear ratios in cars? Can it be done to most cars easily so it would be something we would learn to do as we go along?

And the RWD is a preference but there can be exceptions, I would consider a MkII 16v GTI as it is a familiar car to me and I have never driven a car which handles so well, it's like it had endless grip! But yeh, as I said, there can be exceptions to our preferences as we are still undecided as to what we actually want... convince me and I'll add them to our list.

Dr Who said:
Another thing to suggest is go to some track days to watch, you may be surprised at which cars are making the best times.
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Yeah I think I should actually, although the nearest to me is Mallory Park so I'm assuming it's not going to have a wide variety of car types...

Biohazard said:
I would want something far smaller and lighter for the track than a bmw.

I know they're nice etc, I just would be far more interested in something more fun/original.
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Surely if you strip out a BMW it would go to a light enough weight to compete with a stripped out hatch or the like? Or is the chasis vital components the weightier parts rather than the "extras" that would be stripped?
 
Some really good suggestions so far I think...

Mk1 MR2
Mk2 Golf
205 GTi
MX5
7 Replica

All would make fantastic first track cars and would be on my list.

If you think the Mk2 Golf is good, try a 205 ;)

Mallory would be good, I think you would be surprised what will turn up, Donnington will probably be more diverse tho.
 
Kitchster_uk said:
With ref to 'slow' on the track and yourr driving ability - it means jack. You'll be running semi-slick tyres, better suspension, less weight and will find that a decent setup on a smaller, lighter and less-powerful car will run rings around something massively powerful. Once you can handle it in the corners, THEN work on the power. You are coming in as people who aren't mechanics and want to start messing with an M3? Bin the M3 and it will get VERY expensive.
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Yeah true, maybe I should reconsider. You see, the thing is I'm not sure exaclty what to consider as we are both new to this sort of thing. Maybe I should take my 325 on a track day and see how it/I cope and then judge from there?

But your point about running a lighter car with a decent set-up surely has to be compared to a more powerful car with a similarly decent set-up rather than just a more powerful car?

I get what you guys are all saying though, start small and perfect the little things and then work your way up...
 
Dr Who said:
Mk1 MR2
Mk2 Golf
205 GTi
MX5
7 Replica
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Added to the list, although I'm still edging towards a RWD car just so I can perfect my technique... any other suggestions?

Also, any advice about where/how to look for a suitable garage?
 
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A mate of mine runs a Clio 172, its his only car but he uses it on track regulary. all he's done to it is, ITG panle filter, blue flame cat back exhaust, modified pugspeed discs, mintex pads, Eibach Proline springs on standerd shocks and goodyear eagle F1 tyers.
On an airfield day run by launch motorsport earlyer in the year he came 3rd in the timed laps against some fairly high power cars. Launch motorsports old time attack evo 6 only beat him by changing his R888's for slicks!!
 
What I am trying to get it is this: You are rank ameteurs with no track experience and a track is massively different to the road. A well-sorted mx5/mr2/205 et al will be much cheaper to buy and run and much easier to work on. An M3 will have big running costs, a 325 won't be cheap. More importantly though, it will be easier to drive well and you are less likely to run out of talent. I have been off as a passenger at cadwell as a passenger with someone who drives an mx5 behind the wheel of my '5, someone who had put his round cadwell before and the 'ring as well. That's 130bhp.

Braking from 100-50 is easier to get right than 120-50 and is a skill you don't get on the road, same with taking proper lines, hanging around at the top of the rev band etc.
 
When cornering you are battling centripetal forces, weight makes a bigger difference than power in corners. Because of the length of straights power becomes less relevant than how well you can get into, through and out of a corner. 100ths you make up on a straight are nothing compared to the tenths you can make up in every corner.

Sevens are the best example of this in action.

Good 7 can weigh 550kgs

Without using FG panels and polycarb windows typical stripped car weights
MX5 850kgs
205 775kgs
Mk2 Golf 850Kgs
Mk1 Mr2 850kgs
E36 BMW @1300kgs depending on model/engine

Once you can get the lighter cars doing consistent fast laps, then you can increase the power, swap engines etc etc.

Kitchster talks sense hmmkay
 
Don't forget newer pugs also.

106 GTI or Saxo VTS.

Myself id be after a E30 325is as on track personally I prefer the feel of RWD. But a E30 is going to take a load more work to make quick on track over say a 205.
 
Easier to get hold of a half decent example than a 205 or mk2 golf. Main reason for me mentioning them :)
 
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lol yeah. They are very popular on rally cross days up here though :D

How about a trip to something like palmer sport or cheaper experience day?

You will get to drive, FWD , RWD.. heavy and super light. Will give you a much better idea of what you want

Me I came away "Needing" a 7
 
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