Switzerland appears to have backed minaret ban
- Thread starter mattheman
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what do you mean and where are you going. Just spit it out.
Soldato
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Well if you want to start randomly banning stuff go ahead.
Just don't complain when it inevitably affects you. I on the other hand like my freedoms and civil liberties.
There are many churches in the middle east - that's where christianity came from.
I am curious to know as in my experience planning permission is a bit more of a complicated game than just tick boxes.
At the end of the day a vote was taken and I do not see an issue with that. I do not particularly care what is built and where as long as it does not impose on my way of life - I do not want to hear the prayers of a religion and as such would have pretty strong views about a place of worship being built opposite my house.
Does that mean I am ignorant and prejudice?
You don't see a problem with a blank ban on a minority. That is neither hurting or harming anyone. Or breaking any other laws.
yes that certainly does mean you are ignorant and prejudice or just extremely narrow minded and have no forward thinking.
Things are randomly banned all of the time
You cannot take banned substances for example.
Your freedoms are only as extensive as the government allows them to be surely?
You don't see a problem with a blank ban on a minority. That is neither hurting or harming anyone. Or breaking any other laws.
100,000 people signed a petition that brought the vote around. It's their constitution, their laws and they have acted within them. No, I do not see a problem.
Then there really is no hope. So assuming we lived over there. If I got a petition saying make Sin_Chase homeless for life and I got the best PR in the world to get the votes needed. You would think that is acceptable and no problems. Don't be so daft there is no way you can think this is a good idea.
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Soldato
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Things are randomly banned all of the time
You cannot take banned substances for example.
Yes, which is retarded.
So? That doesn't make everything they do right.
Soldato
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28,000 people signed a petition for Jeremy Clarkson to be Prime Minister. Quick, make it happen!
Giving the right to control things to the majority vote is a ridiculous concept and should be got rid of. Far too many people don't comprehend what they're voting for and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near balloting papers. After all, the Nazi party got into power democratically, and I don't think anyone would agree that was a very good choice in the long run.
Soldato
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I was arguing it's moot. As it is within their laws and so forth.
I will agree, however, that the popular vote is absurd, but that's not the topic.
It's very much part of the topic I would have thought. Seeing as people are justifying it, saying it's the popular vote.
Soldato
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True, but it's a circular argument.
I will agree the popular vote is naff.
But I will not agree the minaret ban was bad as it is what the Swiss want - with their popular vote system.
Associate
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They are not banning mosques. They are banning PART of a mosque. It's not even a required part. They seemed to be able to get by without it, and look, the majority of people feel they should not be allowed to be built on mosques. The decision is final. They are to be banned until enough support is raised in order to vote 'yes' when public opinion goes against the decision to ban them. They 'may' ruin the skyline, they 'may' cause disruption in another form or another, is there anything we can do about it? No.
Ofcourse we have this problem of denying freedom for religon. But that decision was made by the Swiss government and it probably wont be reverted anytime soon.
As far as I'm aware. Minarets are (in most modern mosques) more decorative then actually mandantory. In most they don't even make the calls to prayer from the tower really anymore, it's done by Microphone and speaker from within the prayer hall. You don't get quite as many of them nowadays with a bloke standing on top of them anymore calling to prayer.
This debate can be fought in many different ways.
Are they needed? No.
Are they wanted? No. By popular vote, but you can argue that it wasn't a full representation.
Is there anything any of us can do? No.
Is there anything the islamic population of Switzerland can do? No.
Will Switzerland now be labeled Anti-Islamic? No mostly, but in areas with dominant islamic practice, probably.
If the miniarets were mandantory by the religon, then sure, I completely agree that they shouldn'tve been banned. But they are not so I can't agree or disagree with it.
I don't think it's right either to label every swiss national a preacher of islamic hatred. That's far too extreme.
Ofcourse we have this problem of denying freedom for religon. But that decision was made by the Swiss government and it probably wont be reverted anytime soon.
As far as I'm aware. Minarets are (in most modern mosques) more decorative then actually mandantory. In most they don't even make the calls to prayer from the tower really anymore, it's done by Microphone and speaker from within the prayer hall. You don't get quite as many of them nowadays with a bloke standing on top of them anymore calling to prayer.
This debate can be fought in many different ways.
Are they needed? No.
Are they wanted? No. By popular vote, but you can argue that it wasn't a full representation.
Is there anything any of us can do? No.
Is there anything the islamic population of Switzerland can do? No.
Will Switzerland now be labeled Anti-Islamic? No mostly, but in areas with dominant islamic practice, probably.
If the miniarets were mandantory by the religon, then sure, I completely agree that they shouldn'tve been banned. But they are not so I can't agree or disagree with it.
I don't think it's right either to label every swiss national a preacher of islamic hatred. That's far too extreme.
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So popular vote system is very much the issue and as you said it is naff. So why support it?
The ban is prejudiced. There is no justifiable reason for it.
we know that and that isn't the point. What justifiable reason should this ban exist? the vote is pure prejudice however you look at it.
So anything not historically connected with a country should be banned in said country?
oh my dear god.
Soldato
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This is the last I'll say on the issue as we're circling, but: it is justifiable in Switzerland, perfectly, as it is what the Swiss want. End of.