20mph speed zones cut road injuries by 40%, study says

[OpenToSuggestions]

Sorry but that is emotive tosh. Why not champion the banning of smoking, alcohol or improving hygiene in hospitals to eradicate MRSA if saving lives is such a priority? You could save a damn site more lives than by lowering a speed limit.

Seems more like a poor effort to do 'something' before the electrons.
Reducing to 20mph will still get people speeding as 20 is stupidly slow, with many large engine cars just not staying at that speed, the engine will want to rev higher.

 

[Dolph]

Sorry but if it saves just one life then it's a good thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

 

[stockhausen]

... Walking out in the road needs to be an offence similar to J walking in America.

Distinguished historian Felipe Fernandez-Armesto tried to cross the road while in Atlanta for the conference of the American Historical Association, only to find himself in handcuffs and surrounded by armed police.

"I come from a country where you can cross the road where you like" said the visiting professor of global environmental history at Queen Mary College, University of London. "It hadn't occurred to me that I wasn't allowed to cross the road between the two main conference venues."

The bespectacled professor says he didn't realise the "rather intrusive young man" shouting that he shouldn't cross there was a policeman. "I thanked him for his advice and went on." The officer asked for identification. The professor asked for his, after which Officer Leonpacher told him he was under arrest and, the professor claims, kicked his legs from under him, pinned him to the ground and confiscated his box of peppermints.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6251431.stm

Yup, I can quite see why we would want to go down the American road

 

[Dolph]

Yup, I can quite see why we would want to go down the American road

But if it saves one person....

If we're going to rely on fallacies, (Yours is a spotlight, by the way) we might as well all do it.

 

[Housey]

So what if a few kids get dead, I have to get places.

 

[BigglesPiP]

Indeed. Walking out in the road needs to be an offence similar to J walking in America.

Yes, make J walking illegal, and make it illegal to walk in the road when there is a pavement.

See this soo much on the road I live. People from the marina just walk down the road: "This car approaching can wait until I've taken the slowest route possible to the kerb as slowly as possible. What? He's now droving close to me! The EVIL EVIL ****ER!"

 

[miniyazz]

Seems more like a poor effort to do 'something' before the electrons.
Reducing to 20mph will still get people speeding as 20 is stupidly slow, with many large engine cars just not staying at that speed, the engine will want to rev higher.

Never mind big engined cars. I have to concentrate to keep my small 4 pot at 20. Either it's in 2nd at 2k revs, which is just plain irritating when going that slowly, or it's in 3rd at <1.5k revs, which has no torque and maintaining speed, especially on a slight gradient, becomes a vibration and engine-complaining pain in the bum, causing the speedo to creep up to 25 at which point the torque (yes epic amounts) kick in and the car becomes driveable once again without worrying about which gear to be in.

 

[Sin_Chase]

We have some 20s.

I do them in 1st gear as the slightest of throttle input in second sends you flying over the limit. Also means I can dump the throttle when the end of 20 sign comes up

We also have 15mph Green lanes which are quite frankly comedy.

 

[Overlag]

people shouldnt BE in the road,
Road = cars
Pavement = People

stop putting stupid speed limits on our roads, A few NSL roads have been reduced to 30 and 40 around here just because of drunks walking in the road and dying... HOW IS THAT THE MOTORISTs FAULT?!?!

 

[fadetoblack]

Sorry but that is emotive tosh. Why not champion the banning of smoking, alcohol or improving hygiene in hospitals to eradicate MRSA if saving lives is such a priority? You could save a damn site more lives than by lowering a speed limit.

And none off your family has ever been hit and killed by a car breaking the speed limit?? Prat

 

[growse]

And none off your family has ever been hit and killed by a car breaking the speed limit?? Prat

None of which makes the slightest difference to the argument. See the fallacy details Dolph posted. When discussing measures which may or may not save thousands of lives, versus other measures which may do a better job at a smaller cost, tragic anecdotes are irrelevant.

*edit* for content: I can see the value in a lot of 20mph zones, but I'm just worried that crazy council people will take some correctly applied 20mph as being evidence that everywhere needs to be 20mph, and then misapply them to a lot of place which don't need it. Creating a lot of cost (environment, people's time, etc.) with comparatively little benefit. I can't remember who it was, but agree with the poster who said that we need to also be looking at reducing the number of accidents, not just their severity. Making everyone drive at 20 will reduce the severity of accidents, keeping cars and people separate will get rid of car/pedestrian accidents alltogether. I know which one I'd rather push for.

 

[Dolph]

And none off your family has ever been hit and killed by a car breaking the speed limit?? Prat

Objectivity failure, if you cannot keep highly personal but also statistically irrelevant concerns out of your decision making process, you should not be allowed any part of it.

There is, after all, a reason why an appeal to emotion is called a fallacy.

Accidents and tragedies happen, but they cannot all be prevented, and they cannot be reduced that far when you only tackle one half of the problem...

 

[fadetoblack]

Yes they can be reduced
Road safety researchers say only one in 40 people who are hit by a vehicle at 20mph dies, compared with one in five at 30mph. ; ). So drive like hell on a motorway and slow down in town!!

 

[ChrisJSY]

I think....I think the problem here is people stepping in front of a moving vehicle.
If they'd stop that it would be better *worms*

 

[Kitchster_uk]

Yes they can be reduced
Road safety researchers say only one in 40 people who are hit by a vehicle at 20mph dies, compared with one in five at 30mph. ; ). So drive like hell on a motorway and slow down in town!!

If you drive badly at 20 and hit someone at 20, they are significantly more likely to die than if you are paying attention, driving at 30 and manage to scrub your speed to 15 before you hit them.

I think....I think the problem here is people stepping in front of a moving vehicle.
If they'd stop that it would be better *worms*

...and, as above, the risks of getting killed when someone is driving at 40 and you keep your dumb ass on the pavement WHERE IT BELONGS are negligable.

So what if a few kids get dead, I have to get places.

Quite. Sounds harsh but nanny state is leaving society with a pack of timmeh's who can't work out NOT to walk infront of the two-tonne car heading along the road. If a child dies crossing the road, the parties responsible are their parents, not the motorist or the speed limits. If you wander across the East Coast Mainline and get minced by the 10:52 to King's Cross, it isn't the train direver at fault and nobody would be out witht their adenoidal voice stating "the speed limit for this train should be 20 mph as it would save lives". Roads are dangerous, but our economy and ergo the health service, fire, police, education et al rely on me and you to get to work and be butt-raped by Mr Darling

 

[iaind]

My V70 isn't geared to stay at 20 for long periods of time. It may not kill children but it definitely kills bunnies with all that CO2.

Who do you care about?

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/2196/chav.jpg[/IMG

Or

[IMG]http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5199/cutebunny.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]

You make a compelling point sir. :D

[quote="Jonny69, post: 15506523"]Maybe if people were driving at 30 in 30 limits we wouldn't need this. But oh no, 30 is too slow for me in my eurobox, it should be my rights to do more than 45. Especially because my car is so safe.

The two cars that have flipped on my road wouldn't have flipped on a perfectly clear straight piece of road if they were doing 30.[/QUOTE]

This, really. There arent many 20 zones around these parts but most of them seem justified and I have no problem sticking to them (apart from the same awkward gearing as Burnsy) - I always end up with some **** tailgaiting me though. It seems these days 30=40 and 20=30. If people werent doing stuff like this [url]http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Woman-thrown-wall-Exeter-car-accident/article-757810-detail/article.html[/url] (thats a long 30mph road around the corner from me) in 30 limits, they wouldnt need to be creating more 20 limits apart from where it's really necessary

 

[Gaygle]

*tinfoil hat* they're going to reduce the limits to 20mph and when nobody really obeys them, they will claim that speeding has increased by 1000000% and roll out new speed cameras at the rate of 56 a day.

/tinfoil hat.

 

[rypt]

N
*edit* for content: I can see the value in a lot of 20mph zones, but I'm just worried that crazy council people will take some correctly applied 20mph as being evidence that everywhere needs to be 20mph, and then misapply them to a lot of place which don't need it. Creating a lot of cost (environment, people's time, etc.) with comparatively little

Every "residential" or "shopping area" road in Oxford is now a 20mph zone

 

[I get around]

Appropriate tbh.
Some of the areas round here i've been in 20's and kids will just play in the road, or playing on the path and then run out into the road to grab something.

The amount of kids i've nearly hit, I just wanna get out and boot them in the face for their sheer stupidity. Then beat their parents down for not teaching them road safety!
God I hate kids.

 

[RedvGreen]

Yes, make J walking illegal, and make it illegal to walk in the road when there is a pavement.

See this soo much on the road I live. People from the marina just walk down the road: "This car approaching can wait until I've taken the slowest route possible to the kerb as slowly as possible. What? He's now droving close to me! The EVIL EVIL ****ER!"

Something similar happened to me a few weeks ago - driving down through Hemlington off the Posthouse roundabout towards Coulby Newham (for those familiar with Middlesbrough) and on the opposite lane was a Council Momma, + pushchair + 4 kids. 3 kids run over the road infront of me, which I slow to about 20MPH for (it's a 40 road) then I crawl past the Chavette and her kid who's holding her hand, and she is giving me all these fantastic gestures that only a pornstar could wish to perform in foreplay. With some colourful language too.

I was clearly in the wrong because the road is their right of way and I dared to crawl past her? Lol. Unless she wanted to be hit, like some suicide pact.

Appropriate tbh.
Some of the areas round here i've been in 20's and kids will just play in the road, or playing on the path and then run out into the road to grab something.

The amount of kids i've nearly hit, I just wanna get out and boot them in the face for their sheer stupidity. Then beat their parents down for not teaching them road safety!
God I hate kids.

This too... kid's playing against each other on the pavements, lobbing the football over my car or playing chicken. Most roads around here has the same issues.

Near work, at University the car infront of me was attacked by a group of chavs (about 10) and hit one of them as the woman driver tried to get away. A mate in the 'know' told me that she was banned for driving for 6 months as the 10 or so Chavs all gave statements that she accelerated towards them. Totally disregarding the broken windows and dented panels from them kicking her car.