Poll: Do you support the BA Cabin Crew 12 day strike at Christmas?

[Dolph]

Yet this whole thread has been appealling jealously the other way regarding Cabin Crews wages in relation to others. A point that is always bought up in bankers threads, bonuses or pensions but now it's lowly cabin crew its an outrage.

Not really, this whole thread has been about how their expectations are unrealistic and they are driving the company into the ground through blackmail and intimidation by putting massive inconvience on the customers.

I'm not at all jealous of the CC salary, but they need to see it is unsustainable and unrealistic for the job they do.

Then the one time someone points out the CEOs wages we are back to jealousy.

Because it was a red herring. If we are going to look at Walsh's compensation package in the same way, we need to be comparing it to other CEOs, not the cabin crew, to see if he is being paid 100% more than comparable positions with other companies.

Its clearly not that hard to replace these people at the top, the CEO of EasyJet handed in his notice after being paid a £236,000 bonus for completely guessing the fuel price wrong, which cost EasyJet £200 million and they didn't have any issues finding someone to step into his shoes within 5 seconds.

It's easy if you're paying market rate wages for the role. Personally I wouldn't want the workload most CEO's actually do, even for their massive rates of pay.

It wouldn't be hard to replace Walsh it's not like he's doing a great job.

It wouldn't be hard to replace him at market rates, no-one has established that Walsh is being paid over the odds, only to make an irrelevant comparison.

 

[Greebo]

Yet this whole thread has been appealling jealously the other way regarding Cabin Crews wages in relation to others. A point that is always bought up in bankers threads, bonuses or pensions but now it's lowly cabin crew its an outrage.

Not so much jealously, more pointing out that BA cabin crew are the best UK paid cabin crew by a huge margin and as such they should not strike about a change in conditions/job losses/pay cuts or whatever.

Imagine if it was the civil service or train drivers and one company paid their train drivers 62% more than the other train companies and they went out on strike? There would be a massive backlash and they would be accused of greed.

I will say this though. I fail to see how a trolley dolly can be justified to be paid £56,000 per annum. Air Lingus only pays it's co-pilots £59,000 per annum. I am pretty sure that flying a plane is more stressful and harder to do then looking after passengers.

I also see that this is part of BA's problem and perhaps one of the reasons it's in the mess that it is. It is one thing to pay better wages than the opposition to get the best staff but you can go too far. If BA cabin crew wages had only been 10% more than say Ryanair's then they wouldn't have needed to alter their conditions/pay or make people redundant and hence no strike.

So management need to shoulder some of the blame for paying silly wages in the first place.

I mean has the ludricous high wages to get the best cabin crew resulted in enough people choosing to fly BA that the extra revenue is more than the additional wages cost?

 

[Dolph]

I have thought of one positive thing about the strike if it does go ahead... It will again show that Labour always leads to the same old problems, and just as we head into an election year too.

I'm not the only one having this thought either.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article6958542.ece

 

[Greebo]

I believe that Willie Walsh (BA's CEO) is on a basic of about £750,000; equivalent to about 25 members of Cabin Crew - nice work if you can get it!

The point was he did a fantastic job turning round the fortunes of Aer Lingus where he was paid £500,000 per annum so BA head hunted him and now pay him £750,000 as BA need him to do the same for them.

So I don't see a problem with the wage he gets paid as a CEO of a massive worldwide company.

Also his 6% payrise last year of £42,000 isn't even one senior cabin crews wage

 

[dirtydog]

I have thought of one positive thing about the strike if it does go ahead... It will again show that Labour always leads to the same old problems, and just as we head into an election year too.

I'm not the only one having this thought either.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article6958542.ece

I'm not sure how you can blame Labour for this one? Is there any reason to believe this wouldn't or couldn't have happened if Cameron was in power?

 

[Dolph]

The point was he did a fantastic job turning round the fortunes of Aer Lingus where he was paid £500,000 per annum so BA head hunted him and now pay him £750,000 as BA need him to do the same for them.

So I don't see a problem with the wage he gets paid as a CEO of a massive worldwide company.

Also his 6% payrise last year of £42,000 isn't even one senior cabin crews wage

And let's not forget actions Walsh has taken when he has been in error, or when the company has needed him to, such as working a month unpaid or giving up the bonus he had met all the criteria for due to the issues at terminal 5.

 

[Dolph]

I'm not sure how you can blame Labour for this one? Is there any reason to believe this wouldn't or couldn't have happened if Cameron was in power?

Public perception will, we've had more strikes during Labour's reign than we did in the last 2 decades. Whether it is rational or not is beside the point.

 

[stockhausen]

Public perception will, we've had more strikes during Labour's reign than we did in the last 2 decades. Whether it is rational or not is beside the point.

I think you are wrong. Much though you would like to believe it, I would like to see any evidence to support your assertion that the public feel that there is any connection between strikes and New Labour.

Most of the public have already forgotten the vicious war that Thatcher and the Tories fought against the Trade Union movement and the concept of community and society; many will no longer even remember the God-awful Poll Tax which was probably her final undoing.

Lord Snooty and his pals will of course be entirely different

 

[Dolph]

I think you are wrong. Much though you would like to believe it, I would like to see any evidence to support your assertion that the public feel that there is any connection between strikes and New Labour.

Watch what has happened to the opinion polls during recent strike action.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/voting-intention

Most of the public have already forgotten the vicious war that Thatcher and the Tories fought against the Trade Union movement and the concept of community and society; many will no longer even remember the God-awful Poll Tax which was probably her final undoing.

Lord Snooty and his pals will of course be entirely different

I'm not saying they will. Labour's reign has been very similar to the mess they made of the country in the 1970's, so it wouldn't surprise me if the next government ends up like the 1980's tories to sort out the mess.

 

[stockhausen]

Watch what has happened to the opinion polls during recent strike action. ...

And this snapshot does of course have absolutely nothing to do with the public perception of how many strikes there have been during Labour's "reign".

... it wouldn't surprise me if the next government ends up like the 1980's tories to sort out the mess.

One can but hope that we will not have to suffer the out-of-touch policies of Lord Snooty and his pals as dictated by his tax-dodging non-dom friends and the bankers who want to be given even more opportunity to "double their bets" in the hope of winning it all back; maybe there will be a Lib/Lab coalition, that would be nice

 

[Dolph]

And this snapshot does of course have absolutely nothing to do with the public perception of how many strikes there have been during Labour's "reign".

The number of strikes isn't public perception, it's a matter of record. There have been more strikes in the UK under Labour than there was under the previous Conservative administration. The public perception involves those strikes being associated with the government...

It will be interesting if this strike does go ahead to see what effect it has on the polls.

One can but hope that we will not have to suffer the out-of-touch policies of Lord Snooty and his pals as dictated by his tax-dodging non-dom friends and the bankers who want to be given even more opportunity to "double their bets" in the hope of winning it all back; maybe there will be a Lib/Lab coalition, that would be nice

Well, that depends whether you want the minor pain of recovering the economy now, or whether you want more significant pain in 5 years time to do the same thing after another 5 years of fiscally irresponsible behaviour. Remember, the problems the UK faces now did not start because of the recession, but much earlier, during the boom, when Brown decided to max out the credit cards...

 

[teulk]

I have to admit i dont know the reasons for the strike taking place, however having said that i believe that everyone is entitled to strike. Now i understand that strike action generally causes distruption but istnt that the whole piont of going on strike ?

I must say that its a pretty bad time of the year to strike due to the problems that will be caused but again it equates to Maximum Distruption and perhaps knowing that they are hoping BA will cave in the what they want.

 

[Dolph]

I have to admit i dont know the reasons for the strike taking place, however having said that i believe that everyone is entitled to strike. Now i understand that strike action generally causes distruption but istnt that the whole piont of going on strike ?

I must say that its a pretty bad time of the year to strike due to the problems that will be caused but again it equates to Maximum Distruption and perhaps knowing that they are hoping BA will cave in the what they want.

Unfortunately, while people have the right to strike, they have no responsibility to use it appropriately/responsibly/reasonably. It's more like a blackmailers right than anything else at present.

 

[dannyjo22]

No offence intended Dolph but every time I read your posts all I see is Tory Boy from the old Harry Enfield sketches



I literally cannot wait for the tories to get in so everyone can see they won't be any better off, the sleaze won't dissapear and to see for how many years Tory boys will pedal out the line about fixing Labours term.

Labour only really got in again because people where so utterly fed up of the tories, yet people seem to forget this. The same is happening again, Cameron is only going to walk it because everyone is sick of whats happening.

One day people will wise up and realise nothing changes, or maybe they have which is why more people vote for X factor than an election.

 

[Drukk]

The senior cabin crew rate does seem ridiculously high, can't doubt that really.

Comparing the junior crew pay of 29,000 to the virgin crew pay of 14,400 just does n't make sense. I don't believe this is a true reflection of what the virgin crews get paid. Its incredibly low.

Would like to know if this is just basic salaries or if there are allowances on top of that 14,400. I don't believe that is all the virgin crews get paid. A full breakdown would be more informative on how they compare with allowances and other items like that. Here is a quote off the virgin website -

We offer an attractive salary package consisting of a basic element, as well as flight allowances and commission payments. Your 28 days' holiday entitlement comes into effect following your probation period.

We also offer

* pension and private medical schemes
* life assurance
* long term disability insurance
* spouse's and dependent's benefit
* dental plans
* health screening

14,400 is not a competitive salary. How much this gets bumped up though through allowances is not clear.

 

[No1newts]

No offence intended Dolph but every time I read your posts all I see is Tory Boy from the old Harry Enfield sketches

I literally cannot wait for the tories to get in so everyone can see they won't be any better off, the sleaze won't dissapear and to see for how many years Tory boys will pedal out the line about fixing Labours term.

Labour only really got in again because people where so utterly fed up of the tories, yet people seem to forget this. The same is happening again, Cameron is only going to walk it because everyone is sick of whats happening.

One day people will wise up and realise nothing changes, or maybe they have which is why more people vote for X factor than an election.

Tories have problems in power because labour act like irresponsible kids every time they are in power and create a great big mess. The Tories then have to take unfortunately harsh financial measures to sort the country out. But the stupid people of today only see short term and after the economy is pretty much fixed by the Tories who are the only ones with the balls to make the hard decisions which are required, people are peeved off with taxation and instead vote in the cowboys who promise low taxes, jobs for everyone and some sort of disgusting social utopia which always falls flat on its face every single time!

Then its back to the same old golden days of early labour followed by the fall then the cycle repeats itself. It is unfortunate that people have such short twrm memories but thats life

One day people will wise up and realise nothing changes, or maybe they have which is why more people vote for X factor than an election.

I think people are too dumb to see the positive changes due to the short term gain which is what everyone is after in todays society.

But I do totally agree that a lot more people vote X factor than for the people who will govern your country, which I suppose pretty much sums it up

 

[Rich_L]

Also, isn't there an aspect that a large proportion of Virgin staff are new-starters with a higher turnover, whereas many of the cabin crew at BA have worked there for decades, so the average is only that high because it's been increased incrementally year on year?

I'm pretty sure the starting salary for BA cabin crew is around £16k

I get why its a PITA, but from the employees perspective, they have done their job to the letter for ten years, have been rewarded exactly according to the contract they signed and now because of that they are being made redundant - which must be particularly galling when finding out management have been responsible for ballsing up the fuel-hedging, illegally price-fixing and incurring whacking great fines and suchlike.

 

[dannyjo22]

The senior cabin crew rate does seem ridiculously high, can't doubt that really.

Comparing the junior crew pay of 29,000 to the virgin crew pay of 14,400 just does n't make sense. I don't believe this is a true reflection of what the virgin crews get paid. Its incredibly low.

Would like to know if this is just basic salaries or if there are allowances on top of that 14,400. I don't believe that is all the virgin crews get paid. A full breakdown would be more informative on how they compare with allowances and other items like that. Here is a quote off the virgin website -

We offer an attractive salary package consisting of a basic element, as well as flight allowances and commission payments. Your 28 days' holiday entitlement comes into effect following your probation period.

We also offer

* pension and private medical schemes
* life assurance
* long term disability insurance
* spouse's and dependent's benefit
* dental plans
* health screening

14,400 is not a competitive salary. How much this gets bumped up though through allowances is not clear.

Exactly. The figure quoted for EasyJet flying waitresses makes no mention of the huge bonus they get. IIRC it's upto 50% of their salary paid as a bonus depending on company performance and personal performance. Even on the quoted £17k it would really raise the money up. Plus they don't need to make a profit to take that bonus.

If the company forecasts a £300 million loss and they only lose £280 million, thats considered a good performance and the bonus is paid. Hence why despite making seriously bad calls on the airbus and fuel the management team managed a bonus of £200k plus each.

There isn't a way in hell Hosties working out of london are getting 14k per annum.

 

[Rich_L]

Out of interest, I thought this scenario sounded familiar

Re-wind to November 2007

Union leaders today warned of the first ever strike at Virgin Atlantic after cabin crew rejected a new pay deal at the airline.

The Unite trade union said it intended to ballot more than 3,000 members over possible industrial action that could disrupt Virgin services over Christmas and New Year.

Virgin Atlantic cancels flights due to cabin crew strike

Two-thirds of the airline's 3,100 workers voted in a strike ballot held by the union Unite. Support for industrial action was backed by 1,497 to 605, a majority of 70%.

http://www.travelmole.com/stories/1125051.php

Lol

 

[SexyGreyFox]

No. Wasn't there some interviews that appeared on the news (possibily BBC website?) where some of these cabin crew that voted yes to strike didn't actually know that it would last for 12 days and over Christmas? I'm pretty sure I didn't dream this...

I also heard this on the National News