10 biggest lies in audio

Chaos said:
Reminds me of a vid I was watching recently
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Great watch, thanks.

This guy speaks so much truth, it's pathetic.

I was in a store today laughing at a £150 monster HDMI cable, I wish there was something that could be done to them, legal wise, to stop them talking this nonsense.

There were even ads up saying "you NEED monster for full HD" which is a complete lie. :mad:
 
lunarwolf said:
not sure i believe in burn in of speakers, none of the speakers have bought have changed sound tbh. I think it's more about getting accustomed to a new set of speakers, and thus it's more the listener's ears that need a burn in period imo.
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Not sure I agree with that, I've heard some very definate changes. With transmission line boxes or designs where the pressures behind and in front of the speaker cone are very well balanced, the driver itself hardly moves and so remains stiffer when compared to say a ported box. I use a set of PMC speakers at work and they changed quite remarkably over the run in period. :)
 
This is the discussion. Was the run in period between your ears or actually in the speakers? ;)
There is no reason a transmission line box would change in sound unless it's falling apart, the whole point is that it's engineered to rend certain frequencies (say, above 100hz)
As for Isobaric solutions, the cones flex less, but travel more. These tend to be a bit loud for comfortable home listening, imo.

It takes a while for me to adjust to new equipment and I am fully aware it takes me 2 to 3 weeks to get properly used to any changes in the system.

This also leads to situations where you convince yourself you can hear a difference. I have swapped components in and out again, expecting to hear some terrible change in quality which was never forthcoming. Especially true when I was doing my own testing on Coax vs. Optical SPDIF cables (though the stranded fibre optical vs. the plastic cladding showed that the plastic one was deleterious to sound quality) but none of it cost the earth to find out.

Unless there is something happening physically, the sound will not change - unless you buy into hocus pocus like directional cables... :D
 
Lowe said:
Not sure I agree with that, I've heard some very definate changes. With transmission line boxes or designs where the pressures behind and in front of the speaker cone are very well balanced, the driver itself hardly moves and so remains stiffer when compared to say a ported box. I use a set of PMC speakers at work and they changed quite remarkably over the run in period. :)
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I'm sure you did a proper blind listening test with a set of new speakers and a set of "run in" speakers and it wasn't just all in your head at all :rolleyes:
 
probedb said:
I'm sure you did a proper blind listening test with a set of new speakers and a set of "run in" speakers and it wasn't just all in your head at all :rolleyes:
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There's no need to be patronising.

Let me just clear up I'm talking about the 'break in' of speakers rather than the 'burn in' of components. With regards to the transmission line box being different in this regard it's purely because the cone movement in a well equalised TL box compared to a ported box will be less - so it takes a bit longer to break the loudspeakers in.

Can I provide proof that will satisfy any scientific query? No, I didn't carry out blind tests because at the time when they were new it wasn't something that crossed my mind. Am I asking you to take what I say as gospel that must not be questioned? No. I'm giving you the benefit of my own personal experience - do with it what you will.

My experience of what I heard when mastering some audio for a client was that over 48 hour there was a change in the bottom end. I use audio tools which show me a spectrograph of the sound I'm working with and despite no changes being made to the project, at a later date (with no other variables like room changes etc) made the track sounded bottom heavy compared to how it was before.

Was it in my head? Possibly, as I've already said I can't prove it either way. I'm personally satisfied that I heard a noticeable difference and so will 'run in/break in/burn in' new speakers for 24 hours before using them for critical listening. Waste of time? Possibly, but I'd rather not have a client on the phone complaining I'd done a bad job for the sake of 24 hours.
 
AbsenceJam said:
It was in your head.
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Not at all, the plastic clad stuff is pretty crap. This one was ~10metres for no appreciable reason (Other than it was the cheapest one I could find at the time).

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/audio/spdif.html
SPDIF Design Doc said:
There also an optical version of S/PDIF interface which is usually called Toslink, because uses Toslink optical components. The transmission media is 1 mm plastic fiber and the signals are trasmitted using visible light (red transmitting LED). The optical signals have exactly the same format as the electrical S/PDIF signals, they are just converted to light signals (light on/off). Because high light signal attenuation in the Toslink fiberoptic cable, the transmission distance available using this technique is less than 10 meters (with some equipments only few meters).
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Which would account for the loss in sound quality. I'm sure over 1m it's perfectly acceptable.

The 1 metre fibre stranded was a whopping £10.99 so I'm not going to cry about it.
 
I do agree with most of it, but not all (here's an opportunity to get shot to pieces).
Whilst I do believe that most cables make little difference, I don't believe that to always be the case. Infact I seem to remember sticking my hand up and agreeing to blind test the difference to someone on this forum who'd volunteered £1k if I could reliably tell the difference. Now where did that chap get to?

Additionally, I am a believer that some kit burns in. As an example, I recently bought some Sennheiser CX500s for use at work. They sounded simply terrible when I first plugged them in. Now they're just light on bass, but otherwise not that bad.

BTW, my offer about hosting a blind test on a couple of cables still stands...
 
This is not directed toward you mr.sukebe but ABX tests are doomed for failure at the start imo, way too many variables and inconsistencies to be considered reliable.

The best thing anyone can do is demo cables or buy from someone who will accept refunds if you're not happy, then you're under no pressure to hear anything that may or may not be there.
 
marscay said:
This is not directed toward you mr.sukebe but ABX tests are doomed for failure at the start imo, way too many variables and inconsistencies to be considered reliable.

The best thing anyone can do is demo cables or buy from someone who will accept refunds if you're not happy, then you're under no pressure to hear anything that may or may not be there.
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Nps and to a certain extent, I agree with you.
For all that, it's usually the people who think they've got a point to prove who demand blind tests. I just find it interesting that when you agree to them, it all goes rather quiet.
 
marscay said:
This is not directed toward you mr.sukebe but ABX tests are doomed for failure at the start imo, way too many variables and inconsistencies to be considered reliable.
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They're a great way for any audio company to prove that their product makes a difference. You bring out a product, get a group of people together and get them to demo the kit with an ABX comparator. Publish the results and you have proof that you can happily use in marketing material that meets ASA guidelines (note how audio products are advertised at the moment). We could wonder why audio companies don't do that already, but I think we can draw our own conclusions from that.

Anyway, what do you mean they have too many inconsistencies to be considered reliable? How are such tests inconsistent? Could you provide examples of some tests in which you thought the protocol was insufficient?

marscay said:
The best thing anyone can do is demo cables or buy from someone who will accept refunds if you're not happy, then you're under no pressure to hear anything that may or may not be there.
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So, you think double blinded studies are inconsistent, so instead we should use no protocol whatsoever and just live with cognitive bias which will always be present and therefore make the results of such tests meaningless? I can't see your logic there.

Mr_Sukebe said:
Nps and to a certain extent, I agree with you.
For all that, it's usually the people who think they've got a point to prove who demand blind tests. I just find it interesting that when you agree to them, it all goes rather quiet.
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I don't know why this seems to repeatedly get missed by yourself and others.

No one has ever proved they can hear a difference with magic cables and whatnot. That's why, when someone repeatedly says that they can, it is met with skepticism by "trolls"* like me until that person can prove otherwise. It's not down to the skeptic to prove that the person is incorrect for it is impossible to do so.

Now, with regards to a cable test - you're right in that i didn't get back with a suitable testing protocol to use instead of ABX, but this does go back to the point above. The best bet for doing such a test would be for some friendly audio nerd to build a comparator, otherwise it's v hard to do a fair test. Remember, this test is for you, so that you can then say "I can hear a difference". If you failed to demonstrate that you can tell a difference then my position remains the same as it was before the test because i am not the one looking for evidence.


*9designs' label
 
Oli>
I have to say that I never saw the problem with simply unplugging cable 1 and replacing it with cable 2 (and vice-versa). Just as long as it's done fairly quickly by a person who's not amongst the listening group.

As for the person who might benefit, well hopefully both of us. I have a cable that I believe makes a difference, you don't believe so. What's the point of my blind testing for my own benefit? e.g. if I do blind test it and come back and say "hey, I was able to successfully guess the right cable 95% of the time" you still wouldn't believe me as you weren't there.
Hence my offer so that you can get involved, thus making sure you're happy with the test and I don't waste a day of my time not convincing anyone.
 
Yamahahahahaha said:
Unless there is something happening physically, the sound will not change - unless you buy into hocus pocus like directional cables... :D
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with regards to mechanical drivers, that is exactly what happens. There is a reason why drivers are matched in more expensive speakers - because no two are exactly the same even if manufactured to the same specs, there are just too many variables that influence the sound and as time goes on where suspensions losen up a little and electrical properties of the voice coils and components used in any crossovers change, just a little, it can have a rather large impact on the sond produced.

To say a driver never changes shows a lack of understanding of the technology behind them.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Oli>
I have to say that I never saw the problem with simply unplugging cable 1 and replacing it with cable 2 (and vice-versa). Just as long as it's done fairly quickly by a person who's not amongst the listening group.
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The problem is that the person would have to be completely separated from the rest of the group, plus it means that if you want to have a reasonable number of tests it will take ages. Some people might want to listen back to cable A, others back to cable B. It'd take a long time to get a decent sample size. If you've got a comparator you can just switch to and fro as you wish

Mr_Sukebe said:
As for the person who might benefit, well hopefully both of us. I have a cable that I believe makes a difference, you don't believe so. What's the point of my blind testing for my own benefit? e.g. if I do blind test it and come back and say "hey, I was able to successfully guess the right cable 95% of the time" you still wouldn't believe me as you weren't there.
Hence my offer so that you can get involved, thus making sure you're happy with the test and I don't waste a day of my time not convincing anyone.
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I'm happy for it to happen when i'm not there - i don't have to see things with my own eyes, as long as the protocol is well designed with a pre-defined sample size and a significant result etc. If I carried on saying you had no evidence for your position after you've provided some then that is just trolling!
 
Oh yawn... here we go again..... I realy don't get the beef of the sceptics who feel they have to put the world to rights, and have Audiofiles burnt at the stake !!!....
If you can't hear a difference, great, lucky you, Comet do a great line in cheap "Audiofile" gear that sure sounds the same as anything else, buy it and stop posting !!.....:p

Speakers do run in.... they are mechanical device working on a flexable suspension, ......
Electronics do burn in, some more that others, heck my new plasma picture has changed over the first 2 days..... looking pale and weak, and now the blacks and contrast have improved a lot..... can we measure it ? did I dream it ?......

That said there is of hype and BS.... and never more on Forums...........

Which is why a few of us here always say, Try before you buy, let your ears decide, it's your money........
 
james.miller said:
with regards to mechanical drivers, that is exactly what happens. There is a reason why drivers are matched in more expensive speakers - because no two are exactly the same even if manufactured to the same specs, there are just too many variables that influence the sound and as time goes on where suspensions losen up a little and electrical properties of the voice coils and components used in any crossovers change, just a little, it can have a rather large impact on the sond produced.

To say a driver never changes shows a lack of understanding of the technology behind them.
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Nice that you didn't even read the sentence you quoted.
If something physical changes, the sound will change.

Directional cables on the other hand... Well, I've got some magic beans that will absorb undesirable harmonics, only £500 each ;)
 
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