No I don't, and yes the thread title is aimed at the drivers I know, but reading through the whole thread showed a lot of people seemingly laying into the vehicles themselves and anyone who would buy one for anything other than climbing mountains. It's not aimed at the people talking about the drivers.
Overconfident 4x4 drivers in snow
- Thread starter Uriel
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No I don't, and yes the thread title is aimed at the drivers I know, but reading through the whole thread showed a lot of people seemingly laying into the vehicles themselves and anyone who would buy one for anything other than climbing mountains. It's not aimed at the people talking about the drivers.
WOW - 4x4 bashing for no real reason, because people who drive FWD cars are *so* much better in the snow and ice.....oh, no, wait a moment they are even bigger idiots most of the time
Do you spend half your life hanging off someones rear quarter and drive around in your 4x4 as if physics don't affect you?
If not then this thread isn't about you.
Most people are talking about the drivers not treating the vehicles with the respect they deserve or completely underestimating the braking distance needed etc.
I see no wild statements about how bad 4x4s are in snow?! Most of the comments regarding the vehicles are well-founded.
I see no wild statements about how bad 4x4s are in snow?! Most of the comments regarding the vehicles are well-founded.
I'm not reading it all again to prove any points, but by the time I got to what was the end of page 2 when I first posted, and made my post, I had the distinct impression some people were.
But yes, many of the comments were very well founded and quite true.
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Oh my, do you have an S4?
An impression? Some comments have been made on tyres being quite important, 4x4s being generally heavier and with the same braking ability as a lot of smaller vehicles etc.
What was said about them you didn't like?
I have to say I don't dislike a lot of the vehicles, most 4x4s are completely pointless though on our roads, hence the new fad of smaller cars with higher driving positions and general fatness to replace a lot of the massive chelsea tractors. The new X6 would be an example, though it arrived at the party a little late.
To echo what most people have said, it's the way they're driven that's the problem. People think that just because they have a big 4x4 means performance in difficult conditions is guaranteed. It's not, as proven by the picture in the OP. However, I'm not saying it's worse than normal cars, it's better, but only some aspects like traction, which isn't the be-all and end-all.
What was said about them you didn't like?
I have to say I don't dislike a lot of the vehicles, most 4x4s are completely pointless though on our roads, hence the new fad of smaller cars with higher driving positions and general fatness to replace a lot of the massive chelsea tractors. The new X6 would be an example, though it arrived at the party a little late.
To echo what most people have said, it's the way they're driven that's the problem. People think that just because they have a big 4x4 means performance in difficult conditions is guaranteed. It's not, as proven by the picture in the OP. However, I'm not saying it's worse than normal cars, it's better, but only some aspects like traction, which isn't the be-all and end-all.
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Yes i do own one.
No i dont drive 2" from other peoples bumpers, but then nor do the majority of 4x4 drivers, no more than FWD car drivers!
Actually you'll find that 4x4's with proper 4WD do have better traction when slowing, by nature of the drive train you get engine braking on 4 wheels, coupled with more drag due to drive train inefficiencies and you have more ability to slow whilst keeping traciton than a FWD car.
Many 4x4's have tyres such as the BFG AT which are much better than any car tyre in these conditions (Ice excluded because unless you have studs you're stuffed) and the statement about people with a 1k discovery not wanting to spend on tyres is rubbish, many are enthusiasts and as such spend more on tyres than the rot box they are fitted to as they understand what importance they really play in low traction situations, somthing that 4x4 drivers (not chelsea tractor drivers) are far more likely to know how to drive in and deal with than 99.9999% of FWD car drivers as driving in snow/ice is very similar to slushy, sticky, slippery mud.
No i dont drive 2" from other peoples bumpers, but then nor do the majority of 4x4 drivers, no more than FWD car drivers!
Actually you'll find that 4x4's with proper 4WD do have better traction when slowing, by nature of the drive train you get engine braking on 4 wheels, coupled with more drag due to drive train inefficiencies and you have more ability to slow whilst keeping traciton than a FWD car.
Many 4x4's have tyres such as the BFG AT which are much better than any car tyre in these conditions (Ice excluded because unless you have studs you're stuffed) and the statement about people with a 1k discovery not wanting to spend on tyres is rubbish, many are enthusiasts and as such spend more on tyres than the rot box they are fitted to as they understand what importance they really play in low traction situations, somthing that 4x4 drivers (not chelsea tractor drivers) are far more likely to know how to drive in and deal with than 99.9999% of FWD car drivers as driving in snow/ice is very similar to slushy, sticky, slippery mud.
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Me and the missus both own 4x4's - we do live in the countryside - Anyway, we were both driving back together, slowly down a compacted snow road, going downhill towards our property, when some twits in a 4x4 and white van overtook us at speed, needless to say, we were both shocked, and hoped they crashed.
Yea but white vans really are immune to the law of physics, nature, time, reality etc. If the Borg had used White Vans instead of Cubes they’d have defeated humanity and conquered the Alpha and Beta Quadrants
then this thread doesnt concern you, so stop getting the hump over nothing !
Its more the needless bashing that goes on just because its a 4x4, i've rarely read so much tripe in my life, its the kind of opinions that make it as "news" in the daily mail!
compared with the needless bashing of vauxhall owners, or BMW owners, or owners of diesels, or owners of corsa
Its not like 4x4 owners are the only ones on the thick end of the motors laughing stick.
We're talking about the road-going 4x4s that never go off-road and never tackle anything more difficult than the upward slope of a multi-storey car park in a shopping centre.
Land Rover Defenders with big chunky wheels and tires and shotgun in the boot are exempt!
i'm a bit like richard hammond, i have a secret yearning desire for a massive raised landrover, with snorkel and winch, massive tyres, diff cover and raised springs to go fording flash floods and impassable terrain in .... wakefield city centre
i'm a bit like richard hammond, i have a secret yearning desire for a massive raised landrover, with snorkel and winch, massive tyres, diff cover and raised springs to go fording flash floods and impassable terrain in .... wakefield city centre
You need a Bowler Wildcat mate, that would turn heads, and probably would have pretty good traction in the snow!
Seriously though, I know what you mean. A kitted out defender and a hilly field to go have some fun in.
lol now you could do thundering up the snowy part of ungritted dual carraigeways in that with the right tyres.
"Pah, a bit of snow ? this can do the Paris Dakhar"
you'd shout out the window at other lesser minions as you overtook them
"Pah, a bit of snow ? this can do the Paris Dakhar"
you'd shout out the window at other lesser minions as you overtook them
This was part of the problem I was trying to get at before though, so what if it's never driven off-road. If someone wants to buy a 20ft GMC Yukon that weights nearly 3 tons to cruise around Knightsbridge, what's the problem ? ...it's only like doing it in a much cheaper and much less tasteful Bentley or similar.
Point is, people can drive whatever they like, I hate and loathe this tend towards smaller and smaller cars with smaller engines. And the fact that people who defy it (with a big 4x4 at least, they seem to ignore big heavy 'gas guzling' cars, thakfully) are often made out to be public enemy number one. I know I am overstating it a little but then it works both ways to be fair.
Do people really want to drive tiny little econo-boxes, or do they do it because of the shifts in society, perception, the prevailing opinion of what one should and should not do, drive, think etc that is around right now? ...I don't know, seems like a lot of bs to me. If you want to drive a massive truck with an engine that chucks out 400 tons of c02 every inch it moves, go for it! ...you already pay for it with higher running costs anyway. Thus your debt to mother earth is accounted for.
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That would be ace.
A chap I work with used to have a defender, and on snowy days he used to drive around and offer all the people who'd been mugs a tow out of the ditch/snowbank they'd found themselves in.
I don't think he charged (perhaps should have done!) as it was more a labour of love building it and using it.
A chap I work with used to have a defender, and on snowy days he used to drive around and offer all the people who'd been mugs a tow out of the ditch/snowbank they'd found themselves in.
I don't think he charged (perhaps should have done!) as it was more a labour of love building it and using it.
I guess the step that you haven't yet taken is the assumption that most people who drive such vehicles overestimate their abilities in adverse conditions. Nobody's saying all people who have one are like that (and you are allowed to buy one, I won't hate you), but you have to admit, a lot are. That's what this thread is about.