Poll: Which party will get your vote in the General Election?

Which party will get your vote in the General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 704 38.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 221 12.1%
  • Liberal Democrat

    Votes: 297 16.2%
  • British National Party

    Votes: 144 7.9%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 36 2.0%
  • UK Independence Party

    Votes: 46 2.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 48 2.6%
  • Don't care I have no intension of voting.

    Votes: 334 18.3%

  • Total voters
    1,830
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I think the right-wing parties are really more about personal greed. Lower tax, less government, worse public sector -- you know the gig. Left wing is more about wealth redistribution than personal greed to be honest. Although you probably don't believe me :(

They have failed, wealth redistribution has caused the underclass of society that are greedy by optioning out of work and sit on there lazy arses and have a hand stretched out for benefits. Pumping out kids and expect school to educate them about everything under the sun not just maths and science.

There is no more personal responsibility in England. Blame culture is everywhere. "my kids are thick as ****" "it's the schools!!!" "i am poor" "it's the rich sucking up money" etc etc

I put Labour at the centre on this, at least with Thatcher she condoned working for a better life, even down to giving you a chance to owning your own home!! And sitting on your arse gets you nowhere.

Yes i sound a little bitter at the chav underclass, mainly because they are a dreadful drain on the rest of us. They should NOT have such a free ride that they have been getting. If you're poor, go without, give up the drink and cigs and drugs and lottery and save your pennies, maybe then you will get somewhere
 
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Then Labour != left wing.

The rich are richer, poor are poorer.

The rich better educated, the poor less so.

The rich have a higher life expectancy, the poor a lower life expectancy.

Money does not provide value in public services - we get diminishing returns.

Also, you're completely wrong that 'right wing' = worse public services by definition, and why is lower tax and less government a bad thing?

The idea is to try and reduce the gap between rich and poor. The idea isn't for there to be no gap. That is called 'communism' and further left than this government has ever suggested it was.

You say about getting 'diminishing returns' with regards to public service .. well of course. If we give money to the members of our society that are starving, obviously we are not going to make some kind of profit on the gig. It's not about profit. It's about 'As a society stopping that bloke starving even if we don't really like him'. Kind of a nicer country to aim for if you ask me, though that is just my opinion.

I am compeltely right that 'right wing' = worse public services. They reduce tax, they reduce the public sector expenditure, which then as a result gives worse public service. Your statement on this bit was the only part of your post which was way off.

Whether smaller government and lower taxes is a good/bad thing is really opinion and what kind of society you want to live in. I like the idea of looking out for each other, even if it costs us a bit. Other people don't, instead thinking 'screw people that can't find a job or can't work for themselves I don't care if they starve I want my money I earnt for me'. Fair enough it's only an opinion.

Of course Left wing and centre and right-wing are all relative. Compared to communists Labour are right wing. Compared to the BNP, conservatives are left wing. If you put all the parties on a great big scale however, Labour would be left wing of the centre-mark.
 
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The idea is to try and reduce the gap between rich and poor. The idea isn't for there to be no gap. That is called 'communism' and further left than this government has ever suggested it was.
Labour have made the gap bigger. Much bigger.


You say about getting 'diminishing returns' with regards to public service .. well of course. If we give money to the members of our society that are starving, obviously we are not going to make some kind of profit on the gig. It's not about profit.
You misunderstand what 'point of diminishing return' means. It means the more money we put into X, the less X is able to output (in any form - whether it is health care or social benefit). Take the NHS - we are well beyond the point of diminishing returns there, due to the self-inflating bureaucracy (NHS management has grown by 100% over the last decade, and front-line staff only 35%). The NHS now runs at a quantifiable since 2005 -1% productivity each year; that is, each year that passes, it drops a percentage point in productivity.


I am compeltely right that 'right wing' = worse public services. They reduce tax, they reduce the public sector expenditure, which then as a result gives worse public service. Your statement on this bit was the only part of your post which was way off.
Do you think that the state should be the first port of call for any need? What is so bad about reducing the lowest rate of income tax even if it means a drop in income support?

If Labour would have continued the same tax band increases that the Major government did (which was essentially in line with inflation at most times), the lowest income tax band would kick in at £12k. It is currently 50% of that.

Through fiscal drag (not raising the bands in proportion to inflation), Gordon Brown has stealth taxed the poor - massively. No Government ever before it (and I mean ever) has extracted so much of their tax receipt from the lower 50% of earners in the history of this country. He then hands back the money he takes from the poor to the poor in the form of overlapping benefits (which have a cost to administer - wastage right there).

Not only this stealth tax, but he scrapped the 10p rate.

For the absolute poorest, this traps them in a dependency on benefits. The Government take what little income they have, and then gives them bits of it back (but far from all) in the form of 'welfare'.

The truly, truly sick thing is that Labour has made it in their interest to uphold this benefit trap - benefits are Labour's carrot to attract votes.


Whether smaller government and lower taxes is a good/bad thing is really opinion and what kind of society you want to live in. I like the idea of looking out for each other, even if it costs us a bit. Other people don't, instead thinking 'screw people that can't find a job or can't work for themselves I don't care if they starve I want my money I earnt for me'. Fair enough it's only an opinion.
Oh shut up with your horse trollop. Tories have never been about taking away social security and relying on society's charity. The Tories have always provided state benefits for unemployment, disability and income top up - because a mobile and healthy work force is best for the economy. There is a difference between social security and paying a family to do nothing for god's sake :rolleyes:
 
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1) OK, so I think I understand what you are saying. For simplicity let's say the 'rich' earn £1m a year, the poor £10000.

So we have a massive economic boom. Everyone gets 50% richer, hoorah. Well the rich now get £1.5m per year, the poor £15000. So, you scream from the rooftops 'The rich and poor gap has got larger'. In fact, you give the rich a 1-off super-tax of £400,000 .. they get £100,000 richer, and YOU scream from the rooftops 'THE GAP IS GETTING BIGGER', then finish your pint, think about the tax, and scream 'BRAIN DRAIN TAX! THE RICH ARE GOING TO RUN AWAY ...'

You see, it's manipulating stats. I can argue the 'brain drain' and the 'rich/poor gap getting bigger' argument for precisely the same actual figures!! I can argue it both ways simultaneously! Its easy!


2) In order for your proposed formula to be in effect, you are suggesting that if I donated £1m to .. er .. Bath hospital, then their level of service to the patient would suffer as a result? Totally barmy. I don't think anyone on this board will agree with you about that one. What about the mass murderer that donates £10m to the local children's hospice eh? How many deaths has he caused as their service goes down the toilet? Seriously -- was this some kind of joke?

3) He scrapped the 10p tax because of massive pressure and PR campaign by the tories. The tories HATED the idea if you remember. Why? Well, it's a 10p on the pounds tax for the poorest, as oppose to, I dunno, a 20p on the pound tax.

4) The state should not be the first port of call for any need. For example if you need a girlfriend.

What is so bad about reducing the lowest rate of income tax even if it means a drop in income support? Well I'd have thought you'd have known this -- the people on income support are earning on aggregate less than the person paying income tax. I pay a load of lowest rate income tax and I'm doing brilliantly. You want to make my tax bill lower, then reduce income support? I'm already minted. How much more money do you want to give me whilst 'disabled bloke' struggles to afford his heating?

5) The whole benefits trap will not be sorted by your 'seige' technique. Reduce their payments constantly until they find a job or starve. This will result in the (innocent) kids of the ****** starving, or them coming round your house, breaking in, kicking you in, taking your PC, and selling it for £35 to stop their kids starving. If I couldn't find work I'D DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING. Unfortunately people don't nicely let their kids starve to death quietly, they tend to cause problems. This is why the social state was imagined up in the first place (and starving corpses make the place look untidy)

The truly TRULY sick thing is that educated, normal people think you can take a load of money out of ANY department and marvel as services improve!! Not even the tories are saying that ..
 
I think the right-wing parties are really more about personal greed. Lower tax, less government, worse public sector -- you know the gig. Left wing is more about wealth redistribution than personal greed to be honest. Although you probably don't believe me :(

lol - suuuurrrrrrrrree

don't you read the papers, or even open your eyes occasionally?
the level of greed and corruption in this labour government has genuinely surprised me - they make the tories look like nuns.
 
1) OK, so I think I understand what you are saying. For simplicity let's say the 'rich' earn £1m a year, the poor £10000.

So we have a massive economic boom. Everyone gets 50% richer, hoorah. Well the rich now get £1.5m per year, the poor £15000. So, you scream from the rooftops 'The rich and poor gap has got larger'. In fact, you give the rich a 1-off super-tax of £400,000 .. they get £100,000 richer, and YOU scream from the rooftops 'THE GAP IS GETTING BIGGER', then finish your pint, think about the tax, and scream 'BRAIN DRAIN TAX! THE RICH ARE GOING TO RUN AWAY ...'
You are, yet again, oversimplifying the point. The gap is not just in terms of pound coins but in education, health and real terms wealth (ability to purchase a home, etc).


2) In order for your proposed formula to be in effect, you are suggesting that if I donated £1m to .. er .. Bath hospital, then their level of service to the patient would suffer as a result?
No, I didn't say that, and for the second time you have shown you do not understand what the phrase "point of diminishing returns" mean. Look it up.


3) He scrapped the 10p tax because of massive pressure and PR campaign by the tories.
Again, no source provided - just words. This is not my understanding of what happened, at all. In fact, the Tories and Liberals badgered him into reversing his position or at the least providing a tax credit, which he caved in to.


How much more money do you want to give me whilst 'disabled bloke' struggles to afford his heating?
Disabled bloke will receive disability benefits. No one is going to take away disability benefits, you psycho.
 
Were I voting nationally, I'd vote Labour, but my actual vote will be either Lib Dem or Labour since I'll vote for whoever provides the best competition for the Tories (I live in a solidly Tory constituency).

My only regret is that I won't be voting against the incumbent, the mind-blowingly atrocious Ann Winterton, since she's stepping down before the election. My constituency returned her to parliament even when she was known to be one of the most grievously corrupt MPs and a horrible racist, so I can't see it swinging away from the Tories with a new candidate.

For argument's sake, I'm (notionally) voting Labour for several things they've done since 1997: introducing a minimum wage; improving education funding; devolving power to Scotland Wales, and NI; scrapping section 28; introducing civil partnerships; making national museums/art galleries free to visit; introducing better statutory holiday rights for workers; introducing statutory paternity leave; establishing NHS direct; a few other things too. I'd be happy with thirteen more years of that.
 
lol - suuuurrrrrrrrree

don't you read the papers, or even open your eyes occasionally?
the level of greed and corruption in this labour government has genuinely surprised me - they make the tories look like nuns.

I open my eyes every day. I read the paper about 2 days in 3. But I don't read the Sun or the Daily Mail (which I think may be the problem).

I think the level of corruption is about even across parties. It seems that way with the 'expenses' scandal (bearing in mind actual numbers of MPs per party).
 
For argument's sake, I'm (notionally) voting Labour for several things they've done since 1997: introducing a minimum wage; improving education funding; devolving power to Scotland Wales, and NI; scrapping section 28; introducing civil partnerships; making national museums/art galleries free to visit; introducing better statutory holiday rights for workers; introducing statutory paternity leave; establishing NHS direct; a few other things too. I'd be happy with thirteen more years of that.
I'm sure you are not a nasty person. So why, then, do you also want 13 more years of us falling ever further behind our European counterparts in terms of healthcare, 13 more years of increasing child poverty, 13 more years of the gap between the rich and the poor increasing?
 
I think the level of corruption is about even across parties. It seems that way with the 'expenses' scandal (bearing in mind actual numbers of MPs per party).

hardly - the list i saw, it was either the top 20 or 50 worst offenders, and 90% were labour.
i remember the scandals of the tories, a few sexual ones, a few financial ones - the depth of labour corruption makes those pale into insignificance, it makes my blood boil.
why just last night they had a newsnight investigation into labour salford council - it beggars belief what they have done.
 
Oh deary me. I did exactly what you suggested and looked up 'point of diminishing returns'. It's bad news fella' :(

I've read 4 websites so far (wiki, dictionary definitions etc) and they all say that you are completely wrong about your definition of the 'point of diminishing returns' as you specifiwed above.

They all say it is when, let us use example, planting 2 packets of seed does not give double the yield as planting 1 packet of seed, you have hit the 'point of diminishing returns'. er .. sorry .. that's how it is fella'

So CRITICALLY the 2nd packet of seeds does PRODUCE A YIELD at this point. It doesn't MESS UP packet 1's produce at all so make the total yield lower AT ALL at the 'point of diminishing returns'. Just the 2nd packed doesn't produce a yield as great as the first did.

Do you want the links?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns
http://nosheepleshere.blogspot.com/2010/01/point-of-diminishing-returns.html

I can give as many links as you want from many, many different sources proving you were wrong. I'm just googling it that's all. How many do you want? Just google for yourself if you want.

And you said I didn't understand it and were nasty to me :( now let's see if you can at least admit the truth on this little point at least...?

I'll answer the rest of your post later .. remember you said

It means the more money we put into X, the less X is able to output
.

This is entirely wrong. How much proof do you want?
 
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hardly - the list i saw, it was either the top 20 or 50 worst offenders, and 90% were labour.
i remember the scandals of the tories, a few sexual ones, a few financial ones - the depth of labour corruption makes those pale into insignificance, it makes my blood boil.
why just last night they had a newsnight investigation into labour salford council - it beggars belief what they have done.

There are more Labour MPs than any other party. I bet there were are few 'BNP' MPs that are corrupt. Because there arn't that many in the house full stop.
 
They all say it is when, let us use example, planting 2 packets of seed does not give double the yield as planting 1 packet of seed, you have hit the 'point of diminishing returns'. er .. sorry .. that's how it is fella'
Precisely.

So what is the point in shovelling more and more money into X if it the proportional value X products goes further and further down in proportion to the money it receives?
 
Precisely.

So what is the point in shovelling more and more money into X if it the proportional value X products goes further and further down in proportion to the money it receives?

BUT YOU SAID
You misunderstand what 'point of diminishing return' means. It means the more money we put into X, the less X is able to output

that is NOT what 'point of diminising return' means! X is not outputting less at the point of diminishing returns it's outputting MORE! Jees man READ THE LINKS YOU TOLD ME TO READ!

The point of diminishing returns is:

If you add another unit to X, X INCREASES output LESS THAN it increased when the last unit was added. THAT is the 'point of diminishing return'. NOTHING to do with 'X' diminishing in any way whatsoever.

READ THE LINKS MAN! You told me to do it, and I learnt what the phrase ACTUALLY means! Your thoughts are wrong, and I can prove it whenever you want.

Jees .. :\ Just read what the phrase means .. and say 'Sorry Britters yup think I was wrong on that'
 
BUT YOU SAID


that is NOT what 'point of diminising return' means! X is not outputting less at the point of diminishing returns it's outputting MORE! Jees man READ THE LINKS YOU TOLD ME TO READ!

The point of diminishing returns is:

If you add another unit to X, X INCREASES output LESS THAN it increased when the last unit was added. THAT is the 'point of diminishing return'. NOTHING to do with 'X' diminishing in any way whatsoever.

READ THE LINKS MAN! You told me to do it, and I learnt what the phrase ACTUALLY means! Your thoughts are wrong, and I can prove it whenever you want.

Jees .. :\ Just read what the phrase means .. and say 'Sorry Britters yup think I was wrong on that'
I had assumed that the term proportional was implicit in what I was saying (and in fact, it is implicit in the paragraph out of which you took my sentence).
 
I had assumed that the term proportional was implicit in what I was saying (and in fact, it is implicit in the paragraph out of which you took my sentence).

Well, that was a bad assumption. In reality your so called 'fact' was -- well .. just completely wrong. :( I should put your bad definition on my sig, but I don't know how.

You've got to be careful with the assumptions you send people down. I note you said

' No one is going to take away disability benefits, you psycho.'

Which would insinuate I said someone was going to take away disability benefits. This is of course, yet a yet a yet again not true. And as for the psycho bit? Well, I haven't been formally diagnosed with that at this stage of my life .. so - guess what - its a 'Hatter wrong fact'. er, yet again.

Go on, say something else, it's tremendously entertaining. Tell me how Labour is planning world war 3 (then later say 'it was obviously I was referring to a comp game called 'WW3'!!) - that'd be excellent.

We could call it 'Hatters amazingly almost true fact of the day' or something?
 
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I'm sure you are not a nasty person. So why, then, do you also want 13 more years of us falling ever further behind our European counterparts in terms of healthcare, 13 more years of increasing child poverty, 13 more years of the gap between the rich and the poor increasing?

I don't think those things have happened in the last thirteen years, and I'm confident that the only credible alternative in the upcoming elections will perform worse by those criteria (which are some of the criteria I prioritise most highly, especially income equality) than Labour will.

I'm not entirely happy with Labour and with the last thirteen years, of course, I just think they're the most appealing of those parties which stand any chance of forming a government.
 
Rob -- Hatter doesn't believe what he's writing here (Tories, better healthcare? No-one would believe that - the tories don't even state it)

He's just baiting. Best ignored generally ..
 
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