Why dont all cars have vtec? (or equilvilent)

the no torque arguement gets really boring and I dont even own a car with VTEC! When people look at my 2.0 n/a gti6 they dont say "thats got no torque" but my mate in his 2.0 n/a Civic gets it all the time; funny thing is they both have the same amount of torque :rolleyes:
 
but you can have a 3 litre engine with Variable timing for example...

VTEC is just variable timing on the cams plus a few other bits and pieces... it doesnt mean your power comes in at high RPM it just means that you can tweak the cam profile/timing to suite the load conditions.

for example, Nissan VQ37VHR with Nissan's VVEL (Variable Valve Event and Lift)...

VQ40DE - Improvements include continuously variable valve timing, variable intake system

toyota 2GR-FE 3.5l V6
Dual VVT-i variable valve timing...

it comes down to complexity and cost... but yes now more engines have variable timing etc. as thye can make an engine more powerful, responsive and efficient with variable timing...
 
Rain Man said:
the no torque arguement gets really boring and I dont even own a car with VTEC! When people look at my 2.0 n/a gti6 they dont say "thats got no torque" but my mate in his 2.0 n/a Civic gets it all the time; funny thing is they both have the same amount of torque :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I agree it's overplayed, but L0rdmike was only kidding about his S2k :D That's just his poor driving tbh ;)
 
note that a car with VTEC or Variable timing does NOT have to have low torque, its just something that Honda used and marketed as a way of extracting more bhp from a small capacity engine... small capacity engines typically have lower torque than bigger capacity engines...

but engine makers of old could just use higher displacement (not complexity) to make more power, so didnt need to use variable systems...

now the thirst is for the most power for most efficiency. engine complexity is a small price to pay to have better emissions and lower co2 ratings...
 
hi gang

The whole point of vtec / myvec / vanos / vvc / vvtli etc was to enable a car to have a fairly large engine and two ( or more ) cam profiles giving it an agressive profile for power and a softer profile for ........EMISSIONS......... so you get you cake and eat it... i.e you have a large saloon but lower co2 output.

VVC tecnology is nothing new, it has been arround sinse the late 60's however with the focus now on co2 emissions and different legislation's across the world it enables a car company to roll out one single engine platform that will comply to emissions laws in multi regons.

The fact that Honda Hit it square on first time and gave us the now famous vtec kick in the crotch at 6000 rpm is neither here nor there.

For most race applications the VVC mechanisms are disabled and the cams run a traditional single aggressive profile as emissions are not really an issue on a race car!
 
Seems like they are very similar technologies, only BMW were 6 years ahead of Toyota with it.

I wonder why nobody is using this uber-tech to make a mental engine though, this far it's just boring engines with no more power then traditional engines.
 
Nissan NEO VVL also deserves a shout... although never mass produced over here, they did the SR16VE and SR20VE and somehting like an SR20VET for JPN/USA also...

and whats not mental about 100bhp/l on a cheap road car?

(SR16VE N1, 2zz-GE, K20 etc)

like when ppl are getting 180 from a 1.6 or 190 from a 1.8 how is that not more engine than a traditional given that most 2.0s even with VTEC or VVTi have only 140-150bhp?
 
maybe i should make my original question more clear

im not saying why dont all turbos have a vtec in stead
and im not saying why dont audi chuck the v8 from an rs4 and give it a 2.2 with vtec omgggzzzzz

also when i refer to vtec i dont mean specifically that technology just something that swaps the cams

also why only 2 cam stages why not 3 or 4?

what i am asking is this
why dont performance fi cars, lets take for example a c class amg or something have everything it already has plus vtec (not necessarily crazy vtec but you know SOME of it) to make it even MORE powerful.

Why dont they shove vtec in a koeniggsegg or ferrari, etc
 
ferrari since at least 2003 do...

i doubt that the audi doesnt have a variable system..

as for 3-4 phases.. complexity, remember the ecu has to adjust the fuel/air and ignition too.. you'd need loads of maps and transition points...
 
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I don't particularly like it, I prefer power from low down then a smooth increase.

Each to their own though.
 
LizardKing said:
The lack of torque thing is getting rather boring.:rolleyes:
Especially when its not true!

Honda Accord 2.0 Vtec - Torque 142@4100 lb/ft
http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/honda/honda-accord-2.0-i-vtec-es-4dr.asp

Ford Mondeo 2.0i Zetec - 136@4500 lb/ft
http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/ford/ford-mondeo-2.0i-zetec-5dr-engine.asp

BMW 318ES - Torque 140@4250 lb/ft
http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/bmw/bmw-3-series-318i-es.asp
Click to expand...

so thats maximum torque....what about torque across the range where it actually matters most?
 
Tute said:
I don't particularly like it, I prefer power from low down then a smooth increase.

Each to their own though.
Click to expand...

But the typical 'VTEC y0!' setup doesn't have any effect at all on the low end :confused:


I think this thread has made it clear that there is a widespread misunderstanding of VTEC.
 
but thats exactly what variable timing should give...

you mean you dont like how some manufacturers have used the technology.. i.e set a specific 'kick' point where you can feel the profile swap...

ill show u a dyno

here u go, a VVL engine with smoothed transition:

http://img705.imageshack.us/i/stockvsmwr.jpg/

stock without ecu adjustment:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/killer2239/seth/seth_before_after_number.jpg

i dont think a lot of ppl really understand this.. its about setup and how it is used, not the tech itserlf..
 
james.miller said:
so thats maximum torque....what about torque across the range where it actually matters most?
Click to expand...

Flat ish

S2000.JPG
 
Clarkey said:
But the typical 'VTEC y0!' setup doesn't have any effect at all on the low end :confused:

I think this thread has made it clear that there is a widespread misunderstanding of VTEC.
Click to expand...

Indeed, vtec is about having normal mode at low revs, with decent fuel econ .. and then more power at higher revs with crappy econ - instead of maximum possible power at every rev point
 
Eliot said:
i was wondering this the other day, i mean i really want a dc2 right and i was thinking if vtec makes a car that quick from a 1.8 engine then why dont all performance cars have something similar, also as vtec is mainly a economy thing why doesnt every small hatchback have it geared for economy. or am i being monumentally retarded
Click to expand...

VTEC doesn't make a car quick. Large valve lift and large overlap helps. The VTEC is to make it usable at low RPM.

Same goes for phase variators like on my Alfa, minus the lift.

The reason all cars don't have it is because these systems focus on high RPM power, which needs more expensive cranks, bearings and other such parts, the system itself is none to cheap either. Do you want to pay £10k for a tiny hatchback?


The ultimate however is complete valve control:

This focusses on the entire rev band, and is coming on all of FIATs small engines now.
 
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