The Man Who Broke Into Auschwitz

[SB118]

...there is also no evidence to suggest that there was gas chambers.
... there has also been tests done inside the chambers and there was no traces of chemicals.
..david cole ..

Well David Cole has distanced himself from his previous views, so they may not be as dependable as first thought.

And as for the "testing" that was done, he took samples from the walls of the ruins and sent them for testing. He sent 1/2"-1" thick chunks of mortar, so the labs crushed these samples up and did a test, no measurable percentage of contaminants were found.

But (and this is the kicker), the substances the lab were testing for only absorb into the top 1-2mm of the surface. If the lab had been told WHICH substances they were testing for, they would have taken samples that were suitable for the substance being tested for, in this case scrapings from the surfaces of the mortar pieces and then run their tests.

(i'm basing this on a documentary i watch many, many, many years ago)


As for the guy in the OP, absolute legend.

 

[ScarySquirrel]

Very interesting read that was.

 

[Keltik THC]

Most executive orders from Hitler where never documented for reasons of security, and to distance the Chancellory from measures that would be unpopular with the German people.

Action T4, Aktion T4 (Tiergartenstraße 4) for example was a rare case in which Hitler put pen to paper.

This is incorrect, you are getting confused - the Nazi's documented almost everything, one of the most bureaucratic organisations of its time and probably of history until recent times. Orders from Hitler were usually dispensed through the channels via Rechsleiter Bormann, hence the Fuhrer's signature is not on many of his orders, but people of the time knew that if it came from Rechsleiter Bormann, it came from Hitler.

The T4 order was nothing out of the ordinary for its time, infact the USA had programs that ran parallel - Hitler pays tributes to the Americans for his Eugenicist beliefs in Mein Kampf.

Again, historical hypocrisy comes into play here against the Nazi's in terms of Eugenics, more than half the states in the USA had already legalised FORCED sterilisation of "inmates of mental institutions, persons convicted more than once of sex crimes, those doomed to be feeble-minded by 10 tests, 'moral degenerate persons,' and epileptics." Just as anti-semitism was rife in this part of history around the world so was Eugenics (Eugenics is still very strong in todays modern world just renamed to bio-ethicism and used in such things as prenatal testing, birth control and IVF etc..)

 

[ac1d1ty]

This is incorrect, you are getting confused - the Nazi's documented almost everything, one of the most bureaucratic organisations of its time and probably of history until recent times. Orders from Hitler were usually dispensed through the channels via Rechsleiter Bormann, hence the Fuhrer's signature is not on many of his orders, but people of the time knew that if it came from Rechsleiter Bormann, it came from Hitler.

The T4 order was nothing out of the ordinary for its time, infact the USA had programs that ran parallel - Hitler pays tributes to the Americans for his Eugenicist beliefs in Mein Kampf.

Again, historical hypocrisy comes into play here against the Nazi's in terms of Eugenics, more than half the states in the USA had already legalised FORCED sterilisation of "inmates of mental institutions, persons convicted more than once of sex crimes, those doomed to be feeble-minded by 10 tests, 'moral degenerate persons,' and epileptics." Just as anti-semitism was rife in this part of history around the world so was Eugenics (Eugenics is still very strong in todays modern world just renamed to bio-ethicism and used in such things as prenatal testing, birth control and IVF etc..)

quoted for truth.

 

[Tefal]

wouldnt you break your legs?

it doesn't say he didn't


But there's vid of people jumping off silly high things (not sure if 45 ft though ) they say as long as you work your way up it's possible to jump off higher than you'd think, but still very risky.

 

[Tefal]

I'm amazed by the jew who swapped back.

Must have taken a lot of courage to give up the chance of survival for a stranger

 

[Scania]

Read the story of Denis Avey previously, what a bloke!

wtf he claims he jumped from a branch 45ft high for the hell of it.

wouldnt you break your legs?

A bloke I used to drive with was an ex para, he made me (6'3" 17Stone) look small! - He would often climb onto the roof of our depot and jump off (onto concrete) "for a laugh" and land like a Cat,as already said, its how you land and having the training & experience I guess...

The guy is / was an absolute nutter though!

 

[Hamzter]

dude. you believe what you are told. that is all.

me, i require evidence, solid evidence.

Oh my word, groen is a hoot! Last week he was pushing his 9/11 consipiricy theories with very shaky 'facts', now he says he requires solid evidence for things? Makes me chuckle! I suppose it's only an opinion though (a rather poorly thought one I might add), so can't really be banned.

As for Mr Avey, what a legend!

 

[Keltik THC]

....Oh my word, groen is a hoot! Last week he was pushing his 9/11 consipiricy theories ....

and here we go again, anyone who doesn't agree with the established order or who has views that you cannot comprehend must be a conspiracy theorist, highly intelligent debate from Hamzter here. I assume you have studied this subject in great detail? i doubt you have, as most people, i assume you have gleaned your historical information from newspapers, the mainstream media and what little parts of history your state sponsored school spoon fed you when you were a young boy.

I urge you to look into historical facts and you will see that people who said the Gulf of Tonkin was staged were called 'conspiracy theorists' when in 2004 documents were declassified that proved it was staged. People in the 1930s were called 'conspiracy theorists' in Nazi Germany for saying what is now termed 'Operation Gleiwitz' was organised by the Nazis, this is now mainline history - i wont go into detail about the Reichstag fire which was another false flag operation carried out by the Nazi's and blamed on an insane young man named Marinus van der Lubbe who the Nazis deemed a communist and resulted in the police state apparatus of the Third Reich and the outlawing of such political parties as Communism in Germany. So again, i urge people not to throw around this political motivated word for issues which they do not understand.

I just watched Question Time and when i read some of the comments above coupled with the inane questions people ask at things like Question Time when they have limited grasp of subjects makes me think that this country deserves the sorry state it finds itself in, and what is going to happen to this country is justifiable.

 

[Angilion]

[..]
What constitutes solid evidence for you? If you don't believe that the Holocaust happened then you're suggesting that millions of witnesses are lying aside from anything else, it would be a conspiracy on an almost unimaginable scale. It's rather unfortunate you should pick this thread to raise a denial/revision of the Holocaust since that's one of the things that Mr Avey wanted to make sure didn't happen.

In addition to the vast numbers of witnesses who would have to be lying, an extremely detailed and organised forging of documents on a massive scale would be needed, without anyone noticing and in a ridiculously unrealistic timescale.

It's just not plausible that the evidence was faked.

There's scope for disputing the numbers involved. There's scope for disputing what proportion were Jews and what proportion were from other groups the Nazis used as despised scapegoats to be slaughtered. But in both cases the scope is limited. It's absolutely certain that there was organised slaughter on a massive scale, with millions killed.

 

[Angilion]

Anyway, can we keep this thread on topic please. This was intended to celebrate the courage, heroism and sheer humanity of a wonderful person.

I would say two people.

The man he changed places with chose to go back the next day, knowing what he was going back to.

 

[Freefaller]

I'm amazed by the jew who swapped back.

Must have taken a lot of courage to give up the chance of survival for a stranger

Indeed. Absolutely incredible. I was so happy to hear he survived as well. This is a story of true heroism. I plan to remember this for November this year.

In addition to the vast numbers of witnesses who would have to be lying, an extremely detailed and organised forging of documents on a massive scale would be needed, without anyone noticing and in a ridiculously unrealistic timescale.

It's just not plausible that the evidence was faked.

There's scope for disputing the numbers involved. There's scope for disputing what proportion were Jews and what proportion were from other groups the Nazis used as despised scapegoats to be slaughtered. But in both cases the scope is limited. It's absolutely certain that there was organised slaughter on a massive scale, with millions killed.

Agreed entirely.

I would say two people.

The man he changed places with chose to go back the next day, knowing what he was going back to.

I can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like.

 

[ColdAsIce]

I've visited Auschwitz and the only gas chamber that is currently standing is one that the museum has BUILT on the main site its not authentic, the ones at Berkenau were destroyed. This is what i mentioned on my previous post, the Auschwitz musuem does not make it clear as to what is original and what has been built post-Nazi, which to me is very misleading.

Yes there were crematorium, but most concentration camps have means to dispose of bodies.

You say millions and millions were killed, it is fact that the the figures originally from the 1940s which stated tens of millions have been shrinking as time passes on.

I have studied it in depth and i am undecided, it was possible the Nazi's gassed many people as the eye witness account's seem to be verified - weather they gassed them and then cremated them or allowed them to die through malnutrition and starvation who knows for sure anymore? But in terms of malnutrition and starvation, by the mid 40s most of Germany was in this bad state due to the turning tide of war.

The only thing that sticks in my mind is that there is no released documentation that specifically calls for the systematic murder of these unwanted peoples, no signed order from Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich or anyone - does that mean it didn't happen? again nobody will know, but there were concentration camps, people abuse power so there is always going to be atrocities.

The funny thing is people keep on associating the Holocaust as a purely Jewish event, the Nazi's put all unwanted into concentration camps, Gypsies, disabled, political prisoners etc.. etc..

As i said before what ever happened was an atrocity but why do we always harp on as if the Nazi's were the only ones to kill potentially millions of people?

Stalin conservatively killed around 20 million during the red terror.

Chairman Mao conservatively killed around 80 million - DURING PEACE TIME.

So why do we assign this higher importance to a holocaust? again, im not taking anything away from what happened, whatever did happen we cannot be sure but why don't we talk as much about the red terror and Stalin's purges? why don't we talk about the amount of people Mao killed? They far outnumber any possible numbers that have been mentioned to happen in the Holocaust of the 1940s.

I agree with you on that, the points above seem to have been glossed over completely. Communist marxist propaganda :/

 

[Mat]

After having read that article, I must admit I was moved more by the actions of the Jew who agreed to trade places with Denis, than by Denis himself.

 

[platypus]

The T4 order was nothing out of the ordinary for its time, infact the USA had programs that ran parallel - Hitler pays tributes to the Americans for his Eugenicist beliefs in Mein Kampf.

No, the order wasn't out of the ordinary, Eugenics was a well established belief and practise in some countries. But the fact that T4 was written on the Fuhrer's personal stationary was unusual, and Hitler took steps to ensure that Philipp Bouhler, Karl Brandt and Viktor Brack ran the program in a method to disconnect it from the Chancellery.

 

[platypus]

People in the 1930s were called 'conspiracy theorists' in Nazi Germany for saying what is now termed 'Operation Gleiwitz' was organised by the Nazis, this is now mainline history - i wont go into detail about the Reichstag fire which was another false flag operation carried out by the Nazi's

Operation Himmler and the Reichstag fire are both now well documented exercises of the Nazi regime. People of the time where only called conspiracy theorists by the Nazis - what a surprise! The international community was sceptical about the whole Gleiwitz incident in particular - especially when Americans where brought in to verify the scene at the radio station but denied access in detail.

 

[yermum]

I completely agree that we should not forget those who died in other countries from mass executions and that in addition to Jews, thousands of gypsies, disabled, criminals and homosexuals were also murdered.

My great grandma only made it out of Poland as a child because her parents begged a neighbour who was coming to England to take her. She never saw her parents again. The whole village disappeared.

 

[footman]

My relative Bernard was deported to Auschwitz from Drancy in 1942 presumably with the enthusiastic participation of the gendarmarie.

My extended family in Narewka Mala in Poland were destroyed by an SS Police Battalion and my Romanian relatives sent as slave labour to occupied USSR.

There are so many stories relating to this period and of course all the subsequent horrors inflicted upon the innocent in all parts of the world.

 

[Hamzter]

and here we go again, anyone who doesn't agree with the established order or who has views that you cannot comprehend must be a conspiracy theorist, highly intelligent debate from Hamzter here. I assume you have studied this subject in great detail? i doubt you have, as most people, i assume you have gleaned your historical information from newspapers, the mainstream media and what little parts of history your state sponsored school spoon fed you when you were a young boy.

No need to be so offended (or offensive), by definition a consiricy theory is a theory of people conspiring to commit an act, in Groens case it was his theory that the government conspired to attack the pentagon and the WTC. He IS a conspiricy theorist, there's nothing wrong with that however, questioning the facts is always important, and many conspiry theories have been proven true (at which point they are no longer considered theories since they have sufficient evidence to be considered fact). My point was that Groen based his opinion on very shaky 'facts', his reputation for which doesn't give him much credibility in this discussion.

I expressed no opinion of my own on the factuality of the holocaust, in fact I wouldn't be at all suprised if the numbers were significantly inflated. Since I don't have enough knowledge on the subjuct (and I suspect you don't either), I would never say anything with absolute certainty, and I certainly wouldn't force my view on others.

Please try to keep it civilised, no need to get upset over a discussion!

 

[markweatherill]

I thought 'Holocaust' meaning 'death by fire' or something similar originally referred to the large numbers of German civilians killed by Allied bombings.
And that the term was later appropriated to mean the mass killings of Jews in the concentration camps. But I could be mistaken.