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Waaaaaiiiiiiiittttt.
You're saying the bugs should be addressed and yet you're complaining about "massive patches on release day" which are presumably fixing these bugs ?
PC Gaming...What a farce
- Thread starter MikeB
- Start date
Waaaaaiiiiiiiittttt.
You're saying the bugs should be addressed and yet you're complaining about "massive patches on release day" which are presumably fixing these bugs ?
This was answered on page one. The problem with PC gaming is that there is such a vast number of possible configurations thats its impossible to test them all. Console games are patched to a lesser degree because consoles are all cranked out in the same uniformed configuration.
It also stems further than just hardware and drivers. PC's are such highly strung multitasking machines that you've got literally thousands of software programs that all interact with the drivers that a game would depend on. I think it'd be a hard task to find two regularly used independent PCs with an identical registry.
Given the modern standard of data transfer where 80% of homes in the UK are using 1-2mb broadband or better, and given that to release a BETA will often only encourage additional time for pirate groups or hacking groups to do their jobs it just seems sensible, to me anyway, that a publisher will test the "most popular" configurations (remember all those hardware surveys you get? Valve and Blizzard do loads) and then rely on customer feedback to iron out any problems. Its not like it takes a long to to patch a game these days. Plus its free, right? If your car has problems you have to pay for parts and labour
My final post on the thread (Which has been interesting for me)
Hardware is far LESS diverse than it was, FACT, those of us over 40 will remember the vaste myriad of everything that you could get that was all different architectures. The O/S itself is taking the strain of the registry...NOT the game, although I concede the point that another piece of software COULD be affecting the game, rather than the game itself being badly written.
Regards patches....to have a massive patch ready on release day can only mean they knew for sure they are releasing crap into the marketplace
oh...if my brand new car was unusable and I couldn't drive it away from the dealer...I don't think I would be paying parts and labour...if you would....want to buy my car?
Hardware is far LESS diverse than it was, FACT, those of us over 40 will remember the vaste myriad of everything that you could get that was all different architectures. The O/S itself is taking the strain of the registry...NOT the game, although I concede the point that another piece of software COULD be affecting the game, rather than the game itself being badly written.
Regards patches....to have a massive patch ready on release day can only mean they knew for sure they are releasing crap into the marketplace
oh...if my brand new car was unusable and I couldn't drive it away from the dealer...I don't think I would be paying parts and labour...if you would....want to buy my car?
The ONLY boundary to PC gaming is money. It costs lots more to invest in a rig to run PC games and that is the only sensible argument over PC gaming vs Console and because of this gaming manufacturers are now centring around the console market.
It is simply about finance and making more money from a larger consumer market. However this is not bad because the PC market is now left with fewer strong dedicated companies.
Oh no the PC is dead, we only have Valve and Blizzard making games for us...what will we do LOL
Point me at a better games manufacturer than Valve and Blizzard!
Steam is the most ground breakingly awesome platform for gaming that I have ever had the fortune to see.
Like reinventing Chess.
Blizzard get all the champions in and have them sit around and work out how to make the game better.
Activision or some other console focused manufacturer, would just make the pieces look like arnie and add some airstrikes then give the game a catchy title, like Terror Chess. Who cares if the game is full of bugs and hacks. If it sells to the masses its a winner right! I mean its all about the money isn't it? Thats how we judge success right?
When I hear someone complain about PC gaming outside of the price then they probably also have an irrational hate for Vista and bought their PC from Dell or Sony.
Also Supreme Commander 2 is awesome. It is just not what people expected, which is kind of your whole argument
Don't blame the platform, blame the developer. As for BC2 I have no idea why it is so bad on release.....no id'EA' at all. I mean the games company who published it have a reputation for quality r'EA'leases don't they?
It is simply about finance and making more money from a larger consumer market. However this is not bad because the PC market is now left with fewer strong dedicated companies.
Oh no the PC is dead, we only have Valve and Blizzard making games for us...what will we do LOL
Point me at a better games manufacturer than Valve and Blizzard!
Steam is the most ground breakingly awesome platform for gaming that I have ever had the fortune to see.
- You can buy and pre-download your games and have them sitting there and at the stroke unlocked to play.
- You get patches automatically sent to you, so you dont have to search around the site to download them.
- You get all your friends in one place so you can see who is online and playing right there and then.
Like reinventing Chess.
Blizzard get all the champions in and have them sit around and work out how to make the game better.
Activision or some other console focused manufacturer, would just make the pieces look like arnie and add some airstrikes then give the game a catchy title, like Terror Chess. Who cares if the game is full of bugs and hacks. If it sells to the masses its a winner right! I mean its all about the money isn't it? Thats how we judge success right?
When I hear someone complain about PC gaming outside of the price then they probably also have an irrational hate for Vista and bought their PC from Dell or Sony.
Also Supreme Commander 2 is awesome. It is just not what people expected, which is kind of your whole argument
Don't blame the platform, blame the developer. As for BC2 I have no idea why it is so bad on release.....no id'EA' at all. I mean the games company who published it have a reputation for quality r'EA'leases don't they?
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Why do people constantly Moan about things & want things easy ?
I absolutely Love the fact that I use my own personal knowledge & skill to get my Gorgeous system to run the games I want to play. I really don't mind being on the cutting edge & dealing with Bugs & Server issues & Lag & the like.
I know it's frustrating but the Challenge is second to none, Like the Ultimate Chess game between Man & Machine.
Wasn't it Gilly that had a sig that said summit like,
"Don't wish things were Easier, Wish you were Better"
Summit like that anyway.
Anyway Stop whinging you Big Girls.
Yep, that was me. 'Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better'.
PC games usually have far more depth than consoles and besides you can still write letters on them etc. the PC Vs Console argument is flawed. IMO consoles are for kids, PCs for adults. Console games to me always seem very "samey" and are usually simplified for "instant action"
I recently sold my Wii, will be doing the same with my PS3. Bought on a whim in the States when I was on business, have about 4 games and have played it for about 30 days in total I reckon (not play time, the number of days when I actually bothered to use it). My PC however has been abused over the yrs playing greats such as TF2, BF1942 (Forgotten Hope MOD), BF2 (FH and Project Reality), SH3, iL2, Dragon Age, Dirt2, BFBC2.
Early adopters always get the ***** end of the stick. BFBC2 will be fantastic when its patched and Modded. Personally, I think BFBC2 is too frenetic, it needs to be calmed down a little, spaced out, increased realism and tactics employed - ie, lets get PR on BFBC2 engine!
I recently sold my Wii, will be doing the same with my PS3. Bought on a whim in the States when I was on business, have about 4 games and have played it for about 30 days in total I reckon (not play time, the number of days when I actually bothered to use it). My PC however has been abused over the yrs playing greats such as TF2, BF1942 (Forgotten Hope MOD), BF2 (FH and Project Reality), SH3, iL2, Dragon Age, Dirt2, BFBC2.
Early adopters always get the ***** end of the stick. BFBC2 will be fantastic when its patched and Modded. Personally, I think BFBC2 is too frenetic, it needs to be calmed down a little, spaced out, increased realism and tactics employed - ie, lets get PR on BFBC2 engine!
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Caporegime
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I'm afraid you're wrong, consoles are no more for kids than PC's are for adults. And I think it's slightly ironic that you go onto list some 'greats', the majority of which are also on consoles.
Soldato
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I have been playing PC games since the days of MS DOS and the 640k limit, also owned every console built I think.
My point to the rabid fan boys is that the quality of released code has gotten much worse of late, the coders rely upon the fact that you will be beta testing their release for them and they will fix it later.
This rarely happened when PC gaming started.
A beta is pre-production release, what other industry releases products for the consumers to find the flaws in, and then 'maybe' fixes them, obviously Toyota is the exception in that
To be fair things have moved on light years since the DOS days so it's not suprising that things won't go as smoothly all the time.
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You are the first person on the whole planet, ever, not to be 100% pleased with TF2 and believe it was an awesome purchase!
+1 Britboy
Team Fortress 2 is one of the most recent (~2 years!!) big hits for the PC. Updated regularly, balanced game play, looks good, runs good, feels good, mighty good!
As far as the debate goes, PC gaming has been a little lack-lustre recently. More and more "big new releases" are often problematic involve a few bugs and glitches along the way. Which inevitably, results in disappointment for many of us.
Having said that, they are a lot more complex than 10-15 years ago, as previously stated. They also have competition from consoles now due to consoles catching up in the gaming market. Developers are now seemingly torn between releasing the game on multiple platforms, exacerbating the situation and equating the final product to have a "rushed job" feel.
Think back to the days of Quake or Doom for example. I.d/Carmack and the like didn't have to worry about releasing their games on the mega drive/snes/etc. They were great games, simple but effective and did the job almost to perfection in some cases. They still had the problem of differing system requirements and hardware. I do not believe they were so easily manipulated into rushing their work and therefore turned out better finished products.
A few things to blame in summary:
1) Consoles leaping forward generations to "catch up" with PC quality gaming (almost
)
2) Games developers split priorities. Money over Quality/Time against Final product.
3) Peoples expectations constantly growing and growing.
4) Corporate Fat Cats/ The Man.
Pretty much sums it up for me
Team Fortress 2 is one of the most recent (~2 years!!) big hits for the PC. Updated regularly, balanced game play, looks good, runs good, feels good, mighty good!
As far as the debate goes, PC gaming has been a little lack-lustre recently. More and more "big new releases" are often problematic involve a few bugs and glitches along the way. Which inevitably, results in disappointment for many of us.
Having said that, they are a lot more complex than 10-15 years ago, as previously stated. They also have competition from consoles now due to consoles catching up in the gaming market. Developers are now seemingly torn between releasing the game on multiple platforms, exacerbating the situation and equating the final product to have a "rushed job" feel.
Think back to the days of Quake or Doom for example. I.d/Carmack and the like didn't have to worry about releasing their games on the mega drive/snes/etc. They were great games, simple but effective and did the job almost to perfection in some cases. They still had the problem of differing system requirements and hardware. I do not believe they were so easily manipulated into rushing their work and therefore turned out better finished products.
A few things to blame in summary:
1) Consoles leaping forward generations to "catch up" with PC quality gaming (almost
)2) Games developers split priorities. Money over Quality/Time against Final product.
3) Peoples expectations constantly growing and growing.
4) Corporate Fat Cats/ The Man.
Pretty much sums it up for me
I dont like all these accusations about QA not picking up bugs, sometimes they just cannot be tested within the QA enviroment and other times the bugs have been pointed out but schedules etc prevent them from being fixed due to release dates that if missed would have fans tearing forum boards apart. Ofc it is marketing which actually set the dates.. and most of the people i know in marketing have never played a game in their life yet they have that kind of position at a games publisher...
At the end of the day it boils down to, what is the most amount of income i can pull out of the game with the least expenditure. God damn fat cats. QA wages and average game support shows this.
At the end of the day it boils down to, what is the most amount of income i can pull out of the game with the least expenditure. God damn fat cats. QA wages and average game support shows this.
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Associate
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If I wanted an inferior gaming experience I would go with any console.
If I want the best graphics, most from my hardware, freeware and mods, I think I will stick with a PC. I have a PS3 and it hardly gets touched because of the awesomeness radiating from my PC for gaming...
If I want the best graphics, most from my hardware, freeware and mods, I think I will stick with a PC. I have a PS3 and it hardly gets touched because of the awesomeness radiating from my PC for gaming...
The PS3 and 360 have had just as many problems as the PC over the weekend, and don't forget the entire PS3 network died on it's ass for a full day because of that leap-year bug.
PC's are not the same as consoles, they are built to do so much more than game and play films... therefore there is more to go wrong, badly installed/maintained PC's will be unstable, and from the OP post, he needs to rebuild his rig... Properly!
When your console dies, you have to either send it off for repair, 1 week+ down time.. or buy a new console!
When a piece of hardware in your PC fails, you can go to a local PC shop, buy a replacement part and be back home and up and running again in no time... Simples
When your console dies, you have to either send it off for repair, 1 week+ down time.. or buy a new console!
When a piece of hardware in your PC fails, you can go to a local PC shop, buy a replacement part and be back home and up and running again in no time... Simples
Associate
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just as you don't like all the accusations levelled at QA I don't like your accusations that marketing is the root of the problem. i highly doubt that a marketing guy in any organisation pulls a random date out of his behind and says to everyone "this is when it's happening". with most product launches, the date will be agreed between departments as stuff needs to be planned - production, distribution, printing, advertising campaigns etc etc. most of this has a fixed date and cannot be changed, this stuff is not flexible.
purely digital distribution may well solve the problem, as businesses can then take the time to get things right but it cannot be done indefinitely - you've got to be able to recoup your costs somehow. you know as well as I however that there are still people (me included) who like to have the box in our hands.
we must also face the fact that if 90% of people are satisfied with a product that is only 85% completed, why would a business continue to pump cash into something that satisfies the largest proportion of it's market? you can satisfy some of them with a patch post launch made by a much reduced team. i don't like but unfortunately but it's the way it is.
Sorry i didnt make it clear that my comments were referring to the organisation i work in. Yes most of the problems are due to marketing.
This maybe different in other organisations.
Just to expand further yes as i said before the industry is more about money than pleasing the loyal fanbase. As you said why please the minority over the majority when you can make more money.
We saw this with Mw2, the complete and utter shambles of multiplayers. This was a ploy to increase revenue by adding additional services that were previously free. The multiplayer experience was also simplified to bring it inline with the console variant.
The success of this game was based upon modern warfare 1, in my opinion. I believe this term is called "milking". The moves they made were very short sighted and as a result they ruined a perfectly good IP and reputation.
I dont think production costs had anything to do with it to be honest.
This maybe different in other organisations.
Just to expand further yes as i said before the industry is more about money than pleasing the loyal fanbase. As you said why please the minority over the majority when you can make more money.
We saw this with Mw2, the complete and utter shambles of multiplayers. This was a ploy to increase revenue by adding additional services that were previously free. The multiplayer experience was also simplified to bring it inline with the console variant.
The success of this game was based upon modern warfare 1, in my opinion. I believe this term is called "milking". The moves they made were very short sighted and as a result they ruined a perfectly good IP and reputation.
I dont think production costs had anything to do with it to be honest.
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PC's are not the same as consoles, they are built to do so much more than game and play films... therefore there is more to go wrong, badly installed/maintained PC's will be unstable, and from the OP post, he needs to rebuild his rig... Properly!
When your console dies, you have to either send it off for repair, 1 week+ down time.. or buy a new console!
When a piece of hardware in your PC fails, you can go to a local PC shop, buy a replacement part and be back home and up and running again in no time... Simples
I said i wouldnt post again, but have to respond to that comment.
I have been building/using PC's since the days of the BBC Model A, which I upgraded to a 'B'
I have built well in excess of 30 PC's over the years and they all have run VERY well thank you (After a couple of fried bits
), I have a Games PC (optimised), HTPC (Optimised) and general piece of crap PC (For generic net use), I fully understand what I am doing.The problems I have relayed to you are all over the forums for DICE, the Punkbuster and CTD are in no way the fault of my equipment or even the maintenance of it.
On the bright side, managed to play BC2 today with no punkbuster issues and only the odd CTD.