So I bought a Rotary polisher

There's no reason why a DA would be giving mediocre results. They are capable of some pretty damn good correction, it will just take an age compared with a rotary on the nasty stuff. Indeed, a DA will be easier to finish down nicely with, a rotary is much more susceptible to leaving buffer trails.

Mike is quite right though, if you are removing a scratch then you will remove the same amount of material regardless of what machine you are using. Indeed, for a certain amount of polish, you will do the same amount of work with it before it's fully worked regardless of machine.

So long as you keep the speed sensible (under 2000rpm), always keep the pad flat to the surface and moving at all times you won't come into any trouble at all. The only way you will burn through is by using the machine at an angle and cut into the paint with the edge of the pad, even then you will need to use a very high speed and keep it in the same spot.

Quite a few people use a DA as an introductory tool with the view of moving to a rotary. The way I see it this is a pointless exercise, DA and rotary techniques are totally different so you won't learn anything useful.

On a final note, I'll say that I prefer to use a non-diminishing polish with a rotary machine. With a diminishing one you might find it zips through it's full cut state too quickly to be of a good use. That might depend on your technique though, I like to be quite heavy handed with it which works perfectly with non-diminishing abrasives. I very much like the Meguiars M105/205 SMAT polishes. They allow you to vary the cut level nicely just by adjusting the pressure. You can achieve very good correction levels with a finishing pad and M205,simply crank up the pressure and speed for the more stubborn scratches, doesn't take long at all either.
 
I ordered my PC in '05, at the time I had a brand new STi and wanted to keep it looking good. DW didn't exist, the knowledge base was in the States and the concensus then was that I import a PC as I had no prior experience with a rotary, especially on soft paint.

This still strikes me as good advice. I fully accept that a rotary is a fantastic and efficient tool in the right hands. But I didn't want to practice on a new car and I didn't fancy trying it out on the E90 either, things can go wrong and I was willing to put in extra time to minimise the risk.

I understand that clearcoat removal will be the same but only, in my eyes, in experienced hands. Unless you have a PTG (I don't know any pros that don't), and you are given a rotary without prior experience, I would have thought there would be a much greater chance of excess removal. A much higher cut with a ton of torque and a considerably higher rate of constant point friction will remove clear coat much quicker than a PC with a like for like polish/pad. Then you have to get the speed and pressure right...look how many cars come out of bodyshops with buffer trails. The operators are using these things daily and they don't always get it right.

On top of using a rotary for the first time, you have to deal with hitting the right pad/polish combo. Getting that right means more passes with the rotary.

I'm not naming names, but one of the most respected detailers in the UK (with a client list that most would kill for) will always reach for the PC on soft paint and his own cars. He is in a great position to sell me a rotary but on the basis of how often I polish the cars and the results he has seen from my efforts he always dissuades me. The time saved is actually not huge when you put it into context either. I maybe polish 3-4 cars, twice a year. If you are doing this as a living, then it makes sense. Polishing your own car with a rotary more than 3 times a year would make me question why it's getting marred in the first place and why keep removing more and more clear?

My only real point is that for a beginner, with light to moderate paint issues, a DA would be a safer, easier bet with more than likely the same quality of finish but at less chance of damage and excess clear removal. If you have the time to gather experience with a rotary on old cars and scrap panels , go for it, makes complete sense and you have a new skill. I just wouldn't let you learn this new skill on my own cars. I don't think that is unfair or harsh on the abilities of the rotary or the abilities of a new user.
 
I can relate to most of what you are saying, and all of that was considered when I was making my choice.

However, the DA polishers are quite simply damned uncomfortable to use, and I think that I personally, would feel a greater sense of achievement from "mastering" the rotary.

Each to their own though.
 
There are weights you can adjust on the PC, but by their nature they vibrate. I found using a rotary more comfortable but more tiring.

I don't think you have to be brain dead though to damage panels with a rotary, not all damage is obvious and visible.

If you don't have a DA and this is your first rotary, I really would practice a bit first on something that doesn't matter, not your pride and joy. If the extra money of the DA put you off, burning a plastic bumper is really going to **** up your day. I don't think anybody at DW or Autopia will tell you differently.

There is a reason for that, and it's nothing to do with your mental capacity :)
 
Actually, many on DW said it was a waste of time to learn with a DA first if you ever intend to move onto a Rotary later on, and that the Rotary is no where near as bad as internet myths make it out to be, and it should be fine for a beginner with the right knowledge and some care and common sense, much as I've always suspected.

Yes, I have acquired a scrap panel to play with in the first instance, and then a less important, but reasonably new (2001) work house (Ford Ranger) to do first, because of the amount of scratches etc. on the vehicle already, a bit of minor strike-through isn't going to be the end of the world, although, I do not expect this to happen.

I still maintain by belief that you have to be a tool to inflict any kind of damage that cannot be repaired by someone who knows that they are doing on paint with a rotary - I think armed with the correct knowledge and some common sense, It is perfectly safe.
 
Fett said:
I understand that clearcoat removal will be the same but only, in my eyes, in experienced hands. Unless you have a PTG (I don't know any pros that don't), and you are given a rotary without prior experience, I would have thought there would be a much greater chance of excess removal.
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There really isn't unless you meet the qualifications in Lopez's post. They simply aren't some kind of monster tool that rips paint off as soon as you get close, they are completely controllable and very easy to use. TBH a rotary is slow enough that I get fed up with doing it anyway; a DA polisher would have been lobbed over next doors hedge if it was any slower.
 
The technique is different, the knowledge of pads and polish, breakdown times etc is applicable though. It's not a prerequisite at all, but a little prior knowledge can only help.

MikeHiow said:
I still maintain by belief that you have to be a tool to inflict any kind of damage that cannot be repaired by someone who knows that they are doing on paint with a rotary - I think armed with the correct knowledge and some common sense, It is perfectly safe.
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Not sure what you are saying, all paint damage can be repaired. If somebody has said that rotarys cause irreparable damage, they're talking out their arse.

As far as practicing, we are back to why I would recommend a PC for the casual enthusiast. Apart from throwing the thing at the car, you're not going to do much harm to the paint with a PC, no practice required. This is different with a rotary, that is why you are practicing.

It's the same reason I completely agree with your last statement but would add "experience" to the sense and knowledge part.
 
Dogbreath said:
There really isn't unless you meet the qualifications in Lopez's post. They simply aren't some kind of monster tool that rips paint off as soon as you get close, they are completely controllable and very easy to use. TBH a rotary is slow enough that I get fed up with doing it anyway; a DA polisher would have been lobbed over next doors hedge if it was any slower.
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I've used a rotary, I'm in no way slating them at all. I personally don't think they should be lobbed into beginners hands and let loose. A DA, I have no issues with that scenario.

People have enough problems using pressure washers for **** sake, blowing off chipped paint and Christ knows what else, never mind an orbital buffer being pushed around the paint.
 
MikeHiow said:
I'm talking about damage that could not be repaired without paint.
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Who on earth told you that?


edit - Strike the above, I misread. Probably a lot less common than what you are supposed to think but I know one pro who struck through last year on a bumper. It does happen, but that would not be my main concern.
 
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Fett said:
I've used a rotary, I'm in no way slating them at all. I personally don't think they should be lobbed into beginners hands and let loose. A DA, I have no issues with that scenario.
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Replace the word beginner with ignoramus and then I can totally agree with you. To use a rotary you need to at least have a clue how to use it properly. Give a DA to a complete muppet and they can't really go wrong.

I used a rotary as a beginner, on my own, freshly painted car. Never did any harm. I suppose I wouldn't want to hand it over to a novice and let them loose on my car though.

As for running over edges, shouldn't have a problem with that at all, I always run the machine all the way over the edges. There is a technique required for doing it with a rotary though. You need to tilt the pad a little, put the pressure on the side that is moving OFF the edge, with the lightest possible pressure coming back ON to the panel. Obviously you don't want to tilt it too much though so that it's loading the edge of the pad heavily, that's how you get a big heat build up.
 
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Qeffects said:
I've done irrepairable damage with a rotary before. It's very easy to catch an edge especially on soft honda paint.
I don't even want to give it a go on my z4 as i know the bmw paint is so hard that i'll have to be really going at it and it's more likely that i could do damage because of this. Plus it takes FOREVER
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See my edit.

But, by all acounts, you are brain dead.

Alternatively, all you need is some practice and a bit of experience. Preferably not on a valued bit of kit.

It's simple. Rotaries are great. They are recommended everywhere. This recommendation almost always comes with the caveat of practice first. If you don't understand why there is a heavy bias towards practice with a rotary, *then* it may be time to assess your IQ.
 
[TW]Fox;16114678 said:
Surely its quicker than doing it by hand?
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No, takes hours to do a car properly. Polishing with a hand polish isn't really the same unless you are working it fully, but your arm would be killing after just one panel like that. Hand polishing is more a case of rubbing it on pretty gently, leaving it to dry out then buffing off.
 
[TW]Fox;16114739 said:
Thats all I normally do though anyway?

I kinda feel obliged to use this thing as I was given it as a gift :p
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Thats perfectly fine, hand polishes are more about filling than removing anyway, as permanent removal would be super hard work.
 
Clarkey said:
I used a rotary as a beginner, on my own, freshly painted car. Never did any harm. I suppose I wouldn't want to hand it over to a novice and let them loose on my car though.
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You seem to know your way around a paint shop, so you probably have more of a clue than most at the start. Maybe seen other people do it, quick go yourself? I don't know.

Just the thought of somebody spending a couple of hours on DW, seeing all the shiney metal and ordering a rotary seems to be asking for trouble. Common sense always helps, but by the same token you wouldn't want a novice having a go on your car, I would not like to see a novice damage their own car because rotaries are made out to be all sweetness and light and perfect for the casual detailer or beginner.

That's all, I'm not knocking anybodies choice but there are enough buffer trails in the world as it is.
 
Clarkey said:
Thats perfectly fine, hand polishes are more about filling than removing anyway, as permanent removal would be super hard work.
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Almost all my paintwork is less than 3 years old anyway so my car isnt a swirltastic mess.

Given this, what do you recommend I go for product wise for my DA? It was suggested to me before to try various Mazerna bits and peices but would it work just as well simply using it to apply my usual combo of Super Resin Polish and various sealents or what?
 
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