The Right to Bear Arms

Do you guys realise that the main murder capitals in the USA are states/cities with anti-gun laws? i.e. anti-2nd ammendment laws? breaching the constitution?

for example: gun crime in New York / LA is sky high, why? because the average law-abiding person is not allowed to exercise their 2nd amendment, so they have to walk around unarmed - where as your average criminal doesn't really give a damn about the law.

In states and cities were concealed carry is allowed gun crime is a lot lower, why? because criminals know if they try and rob you or rape someone there's a chance they are going to get a few bullets fired in their direction, its a great deterrent.

Guns prevent crime. If you prevent law abiding people from bearing arms, all you do is disarm the populace and make them easy pickings for the real criminals.
 
Dolph said:
The figures generally don't support this, just as martial arts do not lead to an increase in violent behaviour in those situations in the vast, vast majority of cases.
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I think I quoted this earlier... Dog owners on average live longer! So if I buy a dog, I'm likely to live longer?

This presupposes some cause of the dog on longevity. Where more likely, the kind of person who lives longer, is the kind of person to own a dog :)

I'd guess the kind of person who would do a martial art, is probably the kind of person who would - by the fact there's time effort and dedication involved - would be a more responsible person :)
 
NeilFawcett said:
Sorry, not wishing to be difficult, but I put forward two alternative points? So not as to continue any confusion, which were you referring to?
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The first one (which does incorporate the second one in a way).

Is your point that more guns does not equate to more general attempts and/or more successful suicide attempts?
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Yes, as supported by the evidence presented.
 
Dolph said:
Did the UK murder or suicide rate change when handguns were banned?
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The Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 WAS NOT INTRODUCED BECAUSE OF THIS
Why are you deliberately ignoring the FACT and REASON why handguns were banned in 1997 :confused:
Is it because the reason why it was introduced was to prevent another massacre happening with legally held firearms, a situation that is now physically impossible to happen again, ergo it's physically impossible for the new law to fail at it's sole objective!

The Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 was introduced because of a specific incident (Dunblane) and I might also add the majority of the U.K supported it and still do!
 
Keltik THC said:
Do you guys realise that the main murder capitals in the USA are states/cities with anti-gun laws? i.e. anti-2nd ammendment laws? breaching the constitution?

for example: gun crime in New York / LA is sky high, why? because the average law-abiding person is not allowed to exercise their 2nd amendment, so they have to walk around unarmed - where as your average criminal doesn't really give a damn about the law.

In states and cities were concealed carry is allowed gun crime is a lot lower, why? because criminals know if they try and rob you or rape someone there's a chance they are going to get a few bullets fired in their direction, its a great deterrent.

Guns prevent crime. If you prevent law abiding people from bearing arms, all you do is disarm the populace and make them easy pickings for the real criminals.
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Again, the figures can be used as you like I recon... Would the figures be worse if the anti-gun laws were not in place? Is the fact that states around the ones in question have guns? Etc etc... And every case has to be taken on its own merits as it may not apply here (the UK) where the situation is very different, and the culture is somewhat different to...

You state "In states and cities were concealed carry is allowed gun crime is a lot lower," that doesn't mean that could be applied here without gun crime actually rising?

As for your last sentence, I'd suggest that's very ill-founded and a somewhat romatic picture of guns.
 
Not to mention that if we had the 2nd Ammendment, the Teacher of Dunblane had a pistol she could have prevented the whole tragedy.

Edit: i support a responsible gun laws that dont criminalise every single person, just because you have crazy people does not mean that we should all be treated like such.
 
NeilFawcett said:
I think I quoted this earlier... Dog owners on average live longer! So if I buy a dog, I'm likely to live longer?

This presupposes some cause of the dog on longevity. Where more likely, the kind of person who lives longer, is the kind of person to own a dog :)

I'd guess the kind of person who would do a martial art, is probably the kind of person who would - by the fact there's time effort and dedication involved - would be a more responsible person :)
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Indeed, and the same generally applies to legal gun holders as well, especially CCW holders. To be a good shooter requires effort and dedication, and most would not to anything to risk their position.

This is why legal guns are not, and have never been, the problem. I'm a martial artist who used to shoot, and collects swords. My wife used to be an international standard fencer and also used to shoot. Neither of us have ever reacted in anger, felt the need to use those skills against another and are both pretty passive people generally...
 
Vesta_Man said:
The Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 WAS NOT INTRODUCED BECAUSE OF THIS
Why are you deliberately ignoring the FACT and REASON why handguns were banned in 1997 :confused:
Is it because the reason why it was introduced was to prevent another massacre happening with legally held firearms, a situation that is now physically impossible to happen again, ergo it's physically impossible for the new law to fail at it's sole objective!

The Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 was introduced because of a specific incident (Dunblane) and I might also add the majority of the U.K supported it and still do!
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I can't help notice you always appear in gun threads. Your posting style gives it away even when your username constantly changes...
 
Dolph said:
Indeed, and the same generally applies to legal gun holders as well, especially CCW holders. To be a good shooter requires effort and dedication, and most would not to anything to risk their position.

This is why legal guns are not, and have never been, the problem. I'm a martial artist who used to shoot, and collects swords. My wife used to be an international standard fencer and also used to shoot. Neither of us have ever reacted in anger, felt the need to use those skills against another and are both pretty passive people generally...
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LOL! My instructor's favourite saying - Karate means that you can run away even faster! :)
 
i find it interesting that the news always reports on gun massacres around the world, but when a nutter goes into a school in the USA that allows their students to carry guns; and this has happened; the nutter tries to shoot people then gets taken out by his class mates - the news in the UK for instance doesn't go near this story.

Interesting bias from my point of view.

According to this article, it says FBI statistics show record Gun & Ammo sales last year (due to gun grabbing Obama) yet Crime fell by 10%:

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/do-guns-prevent-crime/question-801143/
 
Dolph said:
The figures generally don't support this, just as martial arts do not lead to an increase in violent behaviour in those situations in the vast, vast majority of cases.

Will you get the odd case? of course, but not a statistically significant set of cases.
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You have to be very sceptical of gun-crime and murder statistics in the US. If a friend kills someone accidentally with a gun and he is not middle class, then in all likelyhood he/she will be charged with murder, on the other hand if he/she was from a good background then accidental death would be the likely charge.

I grew up in LA in the 1980s and Dolph I can tell you that readily available firearms in the hands of certain sections of society will increase the murder rate as (especially gang related) homicide is easier and more convenient with a Mac10 than with a knife or kosh.

You can dismiss my opinion as anecdotal, but I am of the opinion that having easier access to a firearm is a temptation many kids in this country today couldn't resist and the incidence of youth murder would increase.
 
Simple answer - No.

I am very interested in Dolph's upcoming YouTube Kung-Fu tutorials on how to defend against knife and gun wielding crazy people. I am really looking forward to the part where he gives the assailant a gun as it is easier to get off them.
 
maustin said:
Simple answer - No.

I am very interested in Dolph's upcoming YouTube Kung-Fu tutorials on how to defend against knife and gun wielding crazy people. I am really looking forward to the part where he gives the assailant a gun as it is easier to get off them.
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Dolph is correct to summise that it is easier to wrest a gun from someone than a knife. A gun simply doesn't have a sharp edge and is more difficult to use in close quarters than a knife. That is not to say that attempting to do either is practical or advisable in any situation where you are the intended victim.

I would rather face a man with a gun in Dolphs anecdotal Alley than a man with a knife for the simple reason you can get hurt easier with a knife than shot with a gun.
 
Gaidin109 said:
I grew up in LA in the 1980s and Dolph I can tell you that readily available firearms in the hands of certain sections of society will increase the murder rate as (especially gang related) homicide is easier and more convenient with a Mac10 than with a knife or kosh.
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Is this a problem with legal or illegal guns? As no amount of legislation is going to really impact illegal guns. If chav gangsta wannabes in liverpool can get firearms I am guessing someone in LA won't have any problems...


Gaidin109 said:
You can dismiss my opinion as anecdotal, but I am of the opinion that having easier access to a firearm is a temptation many kids in this country today couldn't resist and the incidence of youth murder would increase.
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But this wasn't the case prior to the handgun ban so why would it be different now?
 
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