TV Election debates - how are they doing?

So on reading this thread it seems like Clegg has been the surprise rising star, and Cameron has really, really struggled.

Gives Tory voters something to think about I guess, the lack of a real decent clued-up leader ..
 
They should have had Nick Griffon alongside them, would have made it more fun to watch, would have probally boosted ratings more. :D
 
Well considering most people think we are in the worst state of pretty much any european country showing the real figures and comparing them if necessary should actually help. Even if it just shows we aren't anywhere near as bad as the current tabloids make us think we are.

It's more than a two edged sword though. Distilled down you'd have 3 outcomes to such an act:

1) Relief - Not as bad as I thought - spend spend spend
2) Confusion - :confused: Big numbers, mind = blown
3) Shock - Best play it safe, I best not take any risks

Results 2&3 would likely cause hesitation - which in the current economic climate, and our supposed recovery - this would be a very bad thing indeed.

Infact publishing such data would border on negligence.
 
Looking through this thread, it's terrifying how many people are considering basing their vote on the result of a TV debate.

Much better than what the British Public usually does:

- always voted Labour and always will
- votes based on what the editor of their favourite red top recommends
- votes based on what Daddy votes
- doesn't vote because they'd rather be in the pub supping ale

and the list goes on.

At least the people who made an effort to watch the program will be a little more informed than usual....
 
So on reading this thread it seems like Clegg has been the surprise rising star, and Cameron has really, really struggled.

Gives Tory voters something to think about I guess, the lack of a real decent clued-up leader ..

I think Cameron and Brown both underestimated Clegg and the threat he represents to their positions. They weaken themselves by trying to both garner support from Liberal Democrat voters and build a fake relationship in the event of a hung parliament.

Regardless of the difference of opinion, this TV debate has sparked fascinating viewing and discussions.

Ultimately I think it won't change the outcome much but it will encourage more voters.
 
Much better than what the British Public usually does:

- always voted Labour and always will
- votes based on what the editor of their favourite red top recommends
- votes based on what Daddy votes
- doesn't vote because they'd rather be in the pub supping ale

and the list goes on.

At least the people who made an effort to watch the program will be a little more informed than usual....

Not really, because I doubt they're listening to what's being said. It's just simply "Oh, he dealt the best with the questions" or "He bickered the least".
 
Not really, because I doubt they're listening to what's being said. It's just simply "Oh, he dealt the best with the questions" or "He bickered the least".

I agree, very little policy happened from any of them. Clegg merely came out above all of them with a better tactic. The people are not more informed, they just watched the unknown guy with no reputation compared to Labour/Tories do slightly better.
 
And how would you plan to scale it down? Or by scale down do you mean remove? How can you scale down about half a dozen subs and 200 nulear warheads, bearing in mind most of the money will be in the R&D of the subs and systems, not the building. In other words the only way to scale it down in real terms would be to scrap it.

Firstly we could extend the service of our current 4 subs like the USA did, which would save around £5 billion. Another option is to reduce the number of warheads (approx 160), as you say a lot of the cost is R&D however running costs are significant also and would be reduced by reducing the number of weapons or reducing the number of subs to 3 (as has already been suggested), it would also help reduce the 2-3 billion refurbishment cost. Another option is not to use a submarine based system.
 
Sweeping generalisation much?

I hate making them, but I do believe it to be reasonably accurate.

Those who know, or want to know about policies would have looked it up before now. The BBC have a massive section on the election, you can find just about anything on there.
 
Firstly we could extend the service of our current 4 subs like the USA did, which would save around £5 billion. Another option is to reduce the number of warheads (approx 160), as you say a lot of the cost is R&D however running costs are significant also and would be reduced by reducing the number of weapons or reducing the number of subs to 3 (as has already been suggested), it would also help reduce the 2-3 billion refurbishment cost. Another option is not to use a submarine based system.

Why do we even need 160 nuclear warheads? Are we intending to take out an entire hemisphere or something?

I'll admit I'm not particularly clued up when it comes to defence, but cutting that number would surely still be a sufficient deterrent?
 
I suspect that Cameron will really turn it on in the next two debates now he knows what the other two are all about. It is going to be brutal tbh. No way in hell are the Tories going to let the other two debates go the way this one did. I for one am glad for that.
 
I was a listener rather than a viewer, and thought Cameron come across relatively well.

Brown could promise what he liked, after 13 years of Labour, he summed up my view of too little after too long.

Clegg did best, but had nothing to lose.

Won't change my vote but I have a sneaky suspicion that this just brings us closer to a hung - and weaker - House of Commons.

FWIW, I have no desire to watch it on TV to see if this was one of those "Nixon - Kennedy" moments, Radio listeners thought one thing, TV viewers another.....

Time will tell.
 
Around 9 mins in..am i hearing things or did cameron talk about a 40 year old blackman who came to the UK when he was 6 and spent 30 years in the Navy? So he joined when he was 10? :eek:

 
Has anyone else noticed that there's people in this thread saying that each of the candidates did both very well and absolutely terribly? The TV debate thing is just the three candidates preaching to their respective quires.

Has anyone seriously made a judgement based on the debates? Has anyone Changed their vote? Or have we all just listened to our favourite going "Yes, I agree with you." and sat their thinking "What are you talking about you *******." about the other 2. Then we come on here and call each other Thatcherites or Unionists, even though without knowing which party we all support, we would get along fine.

I hate talking about politics, which is a shame, because I do take an interest in policies, and I am concerned about who will be leading the country.
 
Firstly we could extend the service of our current 4 subs like the USA did, which would save around £5 billion. Another option is to reduce the number of warheads (approx 160), as you say a lot of the cost is R&D however running costs are significant also and would be reduced by reducing the number of weapons or reducing the number of subs to 3 (as has already been suggested), it would also help reduce the 2-3 billion refurbishment cost. Another option is not to use a submarine based system.

While I can see the first point I'd be interested to see how much that would save, considering the new subs would most likely be extended Astute subs, thus not costing a huge amount more than the reconditioning, plus having the added advantage of running longer than the refurbed subs.

Warhead reduction would depend on a couple of things, one, how many subs we have and how much time eah warhead takes to be serviced. We need at least two times the number of warheads to the overall capacity of the subs, possibly 3 times. That is to make sure all subs are full to capacity incase they are all needed at short notice and also to make sure we have enough fully serviced warheads to fill them (therefore 2x minimum, however I have no idea ho long they take to service hence the possibility of 3 times). I'd be fine with losing any excess warheads after all that has been taken into account (but I can't see it being many).

With regards to reducing the number of subs. The BARE MINIMUM is 3 subs to have any hope of a decent deterrent (any less and we may as well not have any), one on service, one in short term refit and one in long term refit. Ideally we would want four at least, so you have more leeway if refits take longer/accidents occur and so you can have a couple out at sea and changing over easier. How many do we have now? Four, for that very reason.

Finally your suggestion of using another system. There are really only two choices there, aircraft or missile silos. We tried aircraft and it hasn't really worked however if we did decide to go with them we would have to develop a nuclear bomber, probably on a par with the B-2 stealth bomber the US have, or we may as well not have any as there would be no suprise and we'd be shot down (obviously if we managed to get any off the ground in the first place). Price? Probably similar or more than the submarine option, and certainly not as good. Second option is silos. Aside from the fact they would probably take a decade at least to build (probably more due to local complaints) they would cost an absolute fortune and no one would want to live anywhere near them. Again they are very susceptable to being destroyed before they can launch any missiles as their locations would be known almost immediately...

With our current technology submarines are probably the safest, cheapest and best way of providing a nuclear deterrent. How are you going to destroy one when you don't know where it is?

Why do we even need 160 nuclear warheads? Are we intending to take out an entire hemisphere or something?

I'll admit I'm not particularly clued up when it comes to defence, but cutting that number would surely still be a sufficient deterrent?

Because warheads need to be serviced too, so need redundancies. I guess you also have the need to have excess just incase the first wave wasn't enough...*gulp*
 
I thought Clegg did OK although for me the Lib Dems policy of leaving us without an independent nuclear deterrent is a deal breaker. To retire the current deterrent with no replacement would be a one time thing like selling off the gold in the 90's, we'd never start from scratch again.

We live in an uncertain world, people believe the UK could never be threatened again which is exactly what they thought after WW1, the great war, or the war to end all wars.

Our Trident subs go a long way to making sure we have a seat at the top table of world politics and cannot be ignored. Now I have no way of proving it and honestly can't be bothered to do the research but i'd take a chance bet that being one of the few nations with an credible, world wide independent nuclear capability gives us all sorts of advantages in concessions, ability to set policy and considerations from other nations globally that bring in revenue that wouldn't be there without it.

Sure, we're clinging onto a world position that we can't maintain for ever. In the mean time though the Trident and it's successor means we don't become an irrelevancy on the world stage and that brings all sorts of benefits. Not to mention of course the cost generates significant inward investment for the UK in R&D, production and a whole bunch of supporting industry's and services.

To give Trident away now would be a one time saving that would be a bad thing both for defence, the economy long term and our standing on the world stage. It's naive and disingenuous for Nick Clegg to suggest not replacing Trident would have no negative effects and would save 65billion (over 25 years).
 
Back
Top Bottom