Poll: 2nd Leaders debate - Live tonight at 8pm on BBC news and SKY news

[britboy4321]

Or alternatively, there has been more time and a more wide reaching poll is now available?

You do seem very, very bitter about a great many things.

No all the polls have been available for months. They haven't only just started. Ask anyone.

I am bitter about lying within elections -- it's cheap - it shouldn't be encouraged.

I'm also bitter about the 'I doubled the national debt, let me do it again' poster campaign round my way. It's misinformative, it's totally against Labours proposed policy, it's nasty, it's just a scummy way for the tories to do business. I mean, are all potential tory voters thickos? Will they honestly chew on their kebab and think 'Whoa, I didn't realise this is what Labour was going to do'?? It's just plain lying .. come on Dolph, even you must admit this poster is misinformative etc etc? Be fair ---? This strategy is low .....

https://flic.kr/p/7V5NkF

For extra points, can you see where the 'hitler moustache' and worse teeth (blackened) have been photoshopped in? Nice eh? Think, David Cameron would have personally 'OK'd' these tactics. This is the character you want in charge? Will you defend him NO MATTER WHAT?

(Please don't retort 'well they all lie so it's ok'!!)

 

[slambo69]

Being 19, I've noticed a massive movement towards the Liberal Democrats within my friends for some reason, and a massive hate of David Cameron. When I asked why they don't like him, all they seem to able to do is call him derogatory names and call him snobbish etc. No solid reason for dislike.

In fact, a lot of people my age don't even know what the parties various policies, they are going to vote by the leader they like the most. It is worrying. =/

Yes, as a first time voter and a right winger, I am in the minority but I would never let politics get in the way of any friendships or socialising. Yesterday I replied to one friends derogativery remark about cameron being snobbish by saying 'Oh yes, a well spoken and well presented gentleman who has recieved education at one of the best places in the world - what a terrible role model!' He looked a little disgusted and didnt have a come back apart from something about him being selfish.

Oh well, you know how the saying goes - "If by the age of 20 you are not a liberal, you have no heart. If by the age of 40 you are not a conservative, you have no brain.'

Im sure the majority of my friends will decide later on that paying rakes of taxes for unfair returns will swing them, but not right now in their cushy lives.

 

[meghatronic]

Yea it seems now that 'youguv' has lost it's last shades of credibility, Murdich has pulled the plug.

How old are you Dave?

 

[britboy4321]

How old are you Dave?

older than 30 by a distance Did you see my Dragons Den performance to get my name? Are you going to hunt me down and stab me? (Relatively easy task if you know who I am!). If so, can you tell me in advance so I can get drunk/take crack/sleep with 18 disease ridden hookers first?

 

[meghatronic]

older than 30 by a distance Did you see my Dragons Den performance to get my name? Are you going to hunt me down and stab me? (Relatively easy task if you know who I am!)

Oh no, not at all. Just curious.

On a completely unrelated note, I need to make a phone call.....

EDIT - I was just trying to work out how old you were under Tories last time

 

[Hatter The Mad]

t's misinformative, it's totally against Labours proposed policy, it's nasty, it's just a scummy way

Why? If Gordon Brown had managed the economy well (and actually been prudent, rather than lying to us about how prudent he was really being) the national debt would not have doubled.

What is NOT to suggest he won't try to add stacks to our debt again, and be wholly ineffective in cutting the deficit?

 

[Dolph]

No all the polls have been available for months. They haven't only just started. Ask anyone.

Polls about the outcome positions following the 2nd debate have been available for months?

Really?

I am bitter about lying within elections -- it's cheap - it shouldn't be encouraged.

Best tell Gordon to stop it then.

I'm also bitter about the 'I doubled the national debt, let me do it again' poster campaign round my way. It's misinformative, it's totally against Labours proposed policy, it's nasty, it's just a scummy way for the tories to do business. I mean, are all potential tory voters thickos? Will they honestly chew on their kebab and think 'Whoa, I didn't realise this is what Labour was going to do'?? It's just plain lying .. come on Dolph, even you must admit this poster is misinformative etc etc? Be fair ---? This strategy is low .....

https://flic.kr/p/7V5NkF

(Please don't retort 'well they all lie so it's ok'!!)

So your argument is that it's bad for the tories to do it, but we're not allowed to consider that it's a common practice, and negative campaigning has been a stalewart of Labour's plan this election.

The poster is probably misinformative, Brown is promising spending cuts (just like the Tories, but not as strong), but the Labour party have promised many things that they have failed to deliver. They promised to keep the debt under control in 2005 for example.

It's not ok, but it is par for the course, and Labour are strongly into the negative campaigning with no basis in fact, so while it isn't ok for the tories to do it, it's very hypocritical to call them on it without acknowledging the behaviour of the other parties.

 

[britboy4321]

Oh no, not at all. Just curious.

On a completely unrelated note, I need to make a phone call.....

EDIT - I was just trying to work out how old you were under Tories last time

Just about voting age. The first year I worked, out of a levels, I paid the VERY FIRST YEAR Poll tax was required of citizens

I think thats why I'm so Labour. I think between 15-20 are your 'formative years', after that people kind of get stuck in a rut and start always voting the same .. as a general rule!

 

[britboy4321]

Why? If Gordon Brown had managed the economy well (and actually been prudent, rather than lying to us about how prudent he was really being) the national debt would not have doubled.

What is NOT to suggest he won't try to add stacks to our debt again, and be wholly ineffective in cutting the deficit?

Hatter I posted some evidence of my 'youguv is aweful' poll shenanigans just like you asked. Did you read the post? I was quite pleased with myself -- it was awesome and makes interesting reading and shows youguv polls to bhe rubbish ....?

I was wondering if I was going to get my first ever 'Ok Britters on that I think you were right ....'??

 

[Hatter The Mad]

https://flic.kr/p/7V5NkF

For extra points, can you see where the 'hitler moustache' and worse teeth (blackened) have been photoshopped in? Nice eh? Think, David Cameron would have personally 'OK'd' these tactics. This is the character you want in charge? Will you defend him NO MATTER WHAT?

(Please don't retort 'well they all lie so it's ok'!!)

Here is the original:

Which is not the same as the defaced one above. Or are you suggesting David Cameron went out and scribbled on the poster?

(And that tooth of his does actually look like that (http://oraclespeak.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/gordon-brown32.jpg). Have you ever met him?)

 

[britboy4321]

Why? If Gordon Brown had managed the economy well (and actually been prudent, rather than lying to us about how prudent he was really being) the national debt would not have doubled.

What is NOT to suggest he won't try to add stacks to our debt again, and be wholly ineffective in cutting the deficit?

'let me do it again' is a misrepresentation of his intention. It's a lie.

 

[Gaidin109]

older than 30 by a distance Did you see my Dragons Den performance to get my name? Are you going to hunt me down and stab me? (Relatively easy task if you know who I am!). If so, can you tell me in advance so I can get drunk/take crack/sleep with 18 disease ridden hookers first?

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]I went on the Dragons Den with one of my ideas! They ripped me to peices .. How cool is that![/FONT]

somehow that doesnt suprise me in the slightest.

 

[meghatronic]

Hatter I posted some evidence of my 'youguv is aweful' poll shenanigans just like you asked. Did you read the post? I was quite pleased with myself -- it was awesome and makes interesting reading and shows youguv polls to bhe rubbish ....?

I was wondering if I was going to get my first ever 'Ok Britters on that I think you were right ....'??

The thing is, polls are really bad. They were notoriously wrong in 1992 (even accounting for the estimated error). Four eve of election polls were wrong in fact, predicting an easy Labour victory when Tories won by 8%.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Hatter I posted some evidence of my 'youguv is aweful' poll shenanigans just like you asked. Did you read the post? I was quite pleased with myself -- it was awesome and makes interesting reading and shows youguv polls to bhe rubbish ....?

Sorry, I missed this.

Like the YouGov pres said - the voting intention was supposed to be asked first. In this one poll it was not. This indeed was a mess up, and clearly could have distorted the result. How does it void all of YouGov's polls?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Photoshopping on to Brown's picture a slight 'Hitler moustache' is just downright childish. Just awful.

It wasn't photoshopped, it was defaced. Are you blind?

Here is the original:

Which is not the same as the defaced one above. Or are you suggesting David Cameron went out and scribbled on the poster?

(And that tooth of his does actually look like that (http://oraclespeak.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/gordon-brown32.jpg). Have you ever met him?)

 

[slambo69]

Hatter I posted some evidence of my 'youguv is aweful' poll shenanigans just like you asked. Did you read the post? I was quite pleased with myself -- it was awesome and makes interesting reading and shows youguv polls to bhe rubbish ....?

I was wondering if I was going to get my first ever 'Ok Britters on that I think you were right ....'??

Woah, he shaded his opponents tooth a shade or two darker? Is cameron the next hitler or what?

First taking a photo with awkward shadows whats next? Holocaust 2?

If ever there was a reason not to vote for someone - this is it!

Folks this guy might have photoshopped a picture of his opponent - PHOTOSHOP PEOPLE!

Someone call NATO!

 

[Gaidin109]

The thing is, polls are really bad. They were notoriously wrong in 1992 (even accounting for the estimated error). Four eve of election polls were wrong in fact, predicting an easy Labour victory when Tories won by 8%.

That is because no matter how many polls you take or debates you hold, the undecided voters only make their decision when they are stood in front of the ballot paper with the pen.

One day they will tell you they are votimg Liberal, then on voting day they put their mark next to Labour or Tory.

 

[britboy4321]

Sorry, I missed this.

Like the YouGov pres said - the voting intention was supposed to be asked first. In this one poll it was not. How does it void all of YouGov's polls?

BELOW WRITTEN BEFORE HATTER'S 'EDIT' OF HIS POST ...

Well you've gone down in my estimations. You'd have held more water if you'd have been honest to yourself as much as being honest to me and said 'Whoa Britters yea that was a pretty bad practice there TBH'.

Seriously fella', think about it - hand on heart if a 'Labour owned' TV station had done this with their owned 'poll' then broadcast the 'results' all over the shop, you'd have been all over them like a bad rash, sending your articles about it madly to your websites and getting all upset about it ...

Think about it .. you're getting too biased. You're not looking at things objectively, which weakens your entire stance. If the tories/tory supporters get something badly wrong you'd seem infinitely more credible if you said 'Yup, that was a mistake' rather than 'no but no but no but' ... to try and defend the mistakes. It just makes your other decent argumenst get received by people as blind propaganda rather than a reasoned judgement ...

If something is obviously bad, don't think 'it's tory, my duty is to defend to the death' as, to the neutrals here, all you're doing is appearing like a loon rather than a decent guy who can have a reasoned argument.

don't answer 'Well you're a faggot' or 'you're talking rubbish er .. er .. Brown is even worse though' or something as that'll just make it even worse honestly mate, trust me

 

[Strife212]

For extra points, can you see where the 'hitler moustache' and worse teeth (blackened) have been photoshopped in? Nice eh? Think, David Cameron would have personally 'OK'd' these tactics. This is the character you want in charge? Will you defend him NO MATTER WHAT?

(Please don't retort 'well they all lie so it's ok'!!)

Someone went and drew that on the poster with a pen...

 

[meghatronic]

Seriously fella', think about it - hand on heart if a 'Labour owned' TV station had done this with their owned 'poll' then broadcast the 'results' all over the shop, you'd have been all over them like a bad rash, sending your articles about it madly to your websites and getting all upset about it ...

You need to let this go. You're cycling down the wrong path. Polls are polls are polls. Flawed.