NHS Database Opt Out

groen said:
well the doctor can just look at me and see what ethnicity i am. why keep a record of it ? Like i said it is a farce.
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No you can look at someone and make a guess about their ethnicity and you may well be right or you might be wrong. And going to my second point about research and audit across populations. How would I do that - plonk all the sick people in Wembley Stadium have a good look around and say hmm looks about half of them are from Asia - that lot over their look quite white (not quite sure whether they are of Iranian or European stock though).

How about you provide evidence of why ethnicity or any other criteria does not really matter. I am very interested in your argument and the substantial evidence or exact examples you will present.
 
How about you provide evidence of why ethnicity or any other criteria does not really matter. I am very interested in your argument and the substantial evidence or exact examples you will present.
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I wouldn't say it does not realy matter. I am sure they can find a use for any information that they ask you for. But how the information is relevant to my visit to the doctor is another question entirely.

As for proving to you how any other criteria does not matter. That is not within the scope of this discussion.

From my knowledge which is limited when it comes to medical research the amount of illnesses and diseases based on ethnicity is limited and not common enough to justify asking that on a medical form. If it was common then it would not be a voluntary section on the medical form.

Take the question on alcohol consumption. Sure if i go to the doctor with an alcohol related problem then i would understand the question. But if i go to the doctor because my foot has a problem and they want to know much beer i drink, i just find that a bit intrusive and excessive.
 
Why, your foot could have gout. Gout can be caused by alcohol consumption. Its a relevant question.

As far as race goes, its only really becoming clear now how important it is for treatments. It is still voluntary because it has to be due to race discrimination laws.
 
stockhausen said:
So why would these "non-Doctors" (Administrators or Management Consultants presumably) be carrying patient data around on laptops and why would they suddenly stop doing it if there was a centralised database :confused:
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SOmebody else brought up the train thing as a reason why they'd opt out. I simply explained that if that sort of thing happened - and I dont think it does - it wouldnt be able to do with the new system anyway.

Which it is proposed should be replaced by a massive centralised database . . . or are you suggesting that GP Surgeries would have a completely separate "shadow" database or that they will no longer need remote access to their data :confused:
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a) It isnt proposed - its here, it exists and its in use.
b) GP Surgeries are not NHS sites so your constant reference to them is a red herring.
 
groen said:
How many times does not having information not save a life ? I bet it is very rare and no where near common enough to justify spending £12billion.
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I could give you a few examples from a single shift last night, including a death, a paralysis from the waist down and a few people being on completely wrong treatments - all for want of info on their medical conditions.

You wouldn't believe how many people end up in hospital completely incoherent, and without any collateral history from someone who knows the patient/situation you have to make a judgement call - often you may be right, and hell doctors have been doing the same for years, but it would be much more ideal to have the info to hand 24/7

VeNT said:
sounds like you'd been drinking.
have you got an alcohol problem?
just how many units a week are you drinking?
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lmao
 
groen said:
From my knowledge which is limited when it comes to medical research the amount of illnesses and diseases based on ethnicity is limited and not common enough to justify asking that on a medical form. If it was common then it would not be a voluntary section on the medical form.
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Like you say your knowledge is limited and it shows. Ethnicity, cultural background, socio-economic status, family history etc are the driving forces in determining what illness's you get in your life as they form your genetic predisposition and potential environmental stimulatory factors. If these were not import then why have I been asking them all these years every time I meet a new patient? I ask them because they matter - greatly. And having that information to hand is valuable when time is of the essence. People can not always communicate they may have dementia, abused some substance, head injury, renal or liver failure, not actually able to communicate due to some disability, actually be too young to retain such information etc etc.
 
stockhausen said:
Why would Doctors carry "people's data" around on laptops :confused:

Have you seen many operations performed on trains?


"I'm on the train . . . I'm having open heart surgery; you have supper now and don't wait up for me." :D


Incidentally, many GPs access their surgery databases from home nowadays and they DON'T have any sort of card to do it.
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but the new system does have smart card access just to login, and requires a token for any remote access into the system. Replacing the weaker security system you're talking about... why are you so oblivious to this? I have seen tens of people logging in like this and without stealing both token gen and smart card from them and using them before it was reported I could never get in.
 
groen said:
How much do you want to bet i could sit in my GPs waiting area with a laptop and gain full access to everyones medical records within 30 mins.
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how much do I want to bet? I'll start you at a grand, if you can't do it within 30 mins you owe me £1000. Why do you think some of the most legally sensitive information held on you (patient record confidentiality is a very serious legal issue for the NHS, and fundamental to any doctors operation) would be taken lightly? It isn't easly accessible now, and it will be even harder to access with the new system.
 
[TW]Fox;16423253 said:
SOmebody else brought up the train thing as a reason why they'd opt out. I simply explained that if that sort of thing happened - and I dont think it does - it wouldnt be able to do with the new system anyway.



a) It isnt proposed - its here, it exists and its in use.
b) GP Surgeries are not NHS sites so your constant reference to them is a red herring.
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you don't work for Derriford do you?
 
j00ni said:
I could give you a few examples from a single shift last night, including a death, a paralysis from the waist down and a few people being on completely wrong treatments - all for want of info on their medical conditions.

You wouldn't believe how many people end up in hospital completely incoherent, and without any collateral history from someone who knows the patient/situation you have to make a judgement call - often you may be right, and hell doctors have been doing the same for years, but it would be much more ideal to have the info to hand 24/7
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you think what it's like up there?
what about here in Cornwall where two THIRDS of the patients we treat are from out of county.
if only our CDC dep could keep up with the workload we would be paid for them all!
lol
 
Why are they not mentioning who and why should they not be specific who will and will not have acess to this data. Bearing in mind the doctor patient confidentiality.
 
there is no such thing as Dr Patient Conf.
it's Patient - NHS conf.
we don't give ANYONE your info. EVER.
not even the police (iirc) unless there is a court order and even then I'm not sure there has ever been a case of this happening.
if you come in and tell us you've got herpes because you've been taking the family sheep up the ***** every day for the last month there is NOTHING WE CAN DO apart from prescribe you a cream to stop the itching.
I'd recommend you follow the instructions tho.
that stuff can really spread.

yes. I have been drinking.
 
VeNT said:
as an aside there was talk recently that a couple of drugs where in testing that worked for people of certain ethnic origins respond well to where as others do not.

I'd rather the NHS has my details than not tbh.
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I'd rather they didn't (in this form anway)

And as for the above..... the racial specific drugs are just something else that should be stopped now. Genetically speaking, nothing differentiates one race from another. Targetting drugs to race is just a new selling tactic by these drugs companies focussing on paranoid Americans.
There isn't an African, Causasian or Asian gene. Yet people still think of things like Sickle Cell Anemia more like a Black disease simply because it's more common in Black people (even though it's just as common in Greek and Italian Caucasians)

And as for getting access to all the patient records - I could do it in 5 minutes - but for £10,000 - a lot less if I was desperate......Just book me an appointment (only this time with a hidden camera on me) - go into the doctors office & make up an ailment, whilst recording him typing in his password - then leave, play back the video in slo-motion in my car and voila one password to that totally locked down/encrypted and totaly secure system. And considering my doc always types in his password when we are in there - it's hardly secure is it ?
 
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PASONIX said:
And as for the above..... the racial specific drugs are just something else that should be stopped now. Genetically speaking, nothing differentiates one race from another. Targetting drugs to race is just a new selling tactic by these drugs companies focussing on paranoid Americans.
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Actually that's not true. Choice of blood pressure medications, for example, are currently given depending on ethnicity because certain drugs work better in certain patient groups on average
 
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