Soldato
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At hatter the mad -
Yo dawg, you heard we like polls. So you put a...
Yo dawg, you heard we like polls. So you put a...
Poll: The Last Leaders Debate – Live tonight at 2030 BST on BBC One
- Thread starter Cosimo
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Soldato
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Love it
Would never happen though. Ive see a lot of people towards the start of these debates saying they'll vote libdem, purely out of the fact these debates have put it on a plate for some of the younger generation who can't be bothered to read into manifestos or policies.
Nick Clegg is the easy to agree with ("I'm not like these two"), no substance individual that these facebook campaigners can back and add a little anarchy to the election.
Hopefully less than half of them turn up to vote.
Whilst I was borderline at the beginning I've actually read about both parties now and have seen the debates, where as most of the younger people I speak to are still spouting off "**** cameron, he's a posh ****" and "I don't want Gordon Brown again" not really giving much of a reason. Only really choosing Lib Dems because they agree with his echo "It's time for a change, we don't want old politics".
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To be honest, if they vote at all that's a major victory for democracy compared to the last few elections...
That depends on what can be achieved within the next few years.
Labour won't really do anything only keep on borrowing and spending. The public need to realize that low levels of unemployment are no good if they are paid for by high levels of debt and borrowing. If your neighbor buys a Porsche on a credit card you might infer that he is doing well but really in the long run he has to pay for it.
We want an economy with low unemployment, high output and minimal debt and that is quite honestly impossible in the short run.
Good point, However what these younger peole fail to realise is the Nick Clegg is a Posher, Richer ***** than Cameron.
I'm not sure I understand your point. You say a hung parliament would be better and shouldn't be hung to ransom by credit rating agencies, however credit rating agencies have a direct effect on interest rates from the bond markets and aren't controlled by governments. Therefore, given there have been warnings from credit agencies about a hung parliament surely the supremely negative effect it'd have on our deficit AND debt wouldn't be worth the risk?
Soldato
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True enough.
PLus, I'd argue that if you don't even do research first, or at the least read about the basic policy of the party, hell, AT LEAST vote, then you can't blood whine about:
The outcome of the election
The results of whichever party getting elected.
Well, the debate was a farce. 
Nick: "I'm not David or Gordon. I want fairness, prosperity and jobs." Unlike the others obviously.
David: "I'm not going to reply to that as it's just the Prime Minister being despirate."
"Be honest about the cuts please"
Gordon: "Urrr, no."
I was so excited when the first question got asked, but it was downhill from there.
Nick: "I'm not David or Gordon. I want fairness, prosperity and jobs." Unlike the others obviously.
David: "I'm not going to reply to that as it's just the Prime Minister being despirate."
"Be honest about the cuts please"
Gordon: "Urrr, no."
I was so excited when the first question got asked, but it was downhill from there.
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Except that he *appears* to have come from that background and now advocates a fairer, more redistributive system than Cameron does. To come from that background and then suggest something which isn't in your interest suggests some intellectual process at work. I'm not sure if you can say that of Cameron who comes from a background of old money and business and represents the party who most embraces businesses and old money.
Agreed, I love Adam Bolton, Kay Burley and Jeff Randell. They make mince meat of the wishy washy, limp wristed BBC offerings.
Good debate, think people are getting tired of Clegg going on about "the same old party politics" YAWN!
Soldato
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I'm getting far more tired of brown's whining about tax credits and that he "doesn't trust the other two and he's worried."
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I think it wouldn't come to that because the market knows the risk of a hung parliament and has already allowed for it (that's what the market does, supposedly efficiently - assesses risk).
But if it did come to that I'd say that it would be preferable to endure some short term pain in return for a better politics in the long term (and not accepting a government which barely 1 in 5 adults could in theory have voted for just to appease the markets). So, in short, I think the risk *could* be worth it.
Yeah true, but Clegg just seems more of an annoying little twerp tbh.
Soldato
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Oh Cleggy...
Trying to hide his euro policy
· Nick Clegg tries to hide his euro policy. In the debate, Nick Clegg said: ‘No I’m not advocating entry into the euro.’
· But last year, he thought the euro was an ‘anchor’. Last year, Nick Clegg told the Financial Times that the euro would ‘anchor’ countries against the ‘vulnerable exposure to international financial markets.’ (The Financial Times, 21 January 2010)
· And his manifesto advocates joining the euro. ‘We believe that it is in Britain’s long-term interest to be part of the euro.’ (Liberal Democrat Manifesto 2010, page 67)
Trying to hide his policy for an amnesty for 600,000 illegal immigrants
· Nick Clegg tries to hide his amnesty policy. ‘I'm not advocating an amnesty…’
· But Nick Clegg has previously called his policy a ‘selective amnesty’. ‘And most controversially in our proposals…also establishing a selective amnesty, if you like, a route to earned legalisation for the up to 600,000 people who have being living in this country invisibly, illegally, often exploited by unscrupulous employers and others.’ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/video/2007/sep/18/nick.clegg, approximately one minute into video)
· And his manifesto promises illegal immigrants an amnesty. ‘We will allow people who have been in Britain without the correct papers for ten years… live here long-term to earn their citizenship.’ (Liberal Democrat Manifesto 2010, page 76)
Trying to hide the facts about immigration from outside the EU
· Nick Clegg tries to hide facts about non-EU immigration to the UK. ‘You say numbers, can you now tell me, am I right or wrong that 80 per cent of people who come here come from the European Union…?’
· But official statistics show Nick Clegg is completely wrong. In 2008, net foreign migration was 251,000 of which 63,000 or 25 per cent was from the EU. Over the past five years the average has been 31 per cent (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=15053 Table 2.01a)
Trying to hide his benefits policy
· Nick Clegg tries to hide his real benefits policy. ‘We all agree benefits should be conditioned. We all agree they shouldn't be dished out for free if people refuse to take up work.’
· But his DWP spokesman says benefits should not be conditional. Asked about the Lib Dem benefits policy today, Lib Dem Work and Pensions Spokesman Steve Webb said: ‘[Questioner] “Just a very quick yes, no question. If somebody, long term unemployed, or, or even more recently, turns down the first job offer, will you do what the other two are doing which is remove their benefits after two weeks or after a month?” [Steve Webb]: “No we won’t because what we need to do is look at the demand for work, and there’s not really enough of that...”’ (Daily Politics, BBC 2, 29 April 2010)
Trying to hide his VAT bombshell on houses
· Nick Clegg tries to hide VAT bombshell on housing. ‘…the second thing we need to do is invest in the kind of things we need…Affordable housing...’
· But his manifesto promises to levy VAT on new homes. Liberal Democrats would make it more difficult for first-time buyers to get onto the housing ladder. They want to levy VAT on new homes, which currently is zero-rated: ‘We will equalise VAT on new build and repair.’ (Liberal Democrat Manifesto 2010, page 81)
Trying to hide his euro policy
· Nick Clegg tries to hide his euro policy. In the debate, Nick Clegg said: ‘No I’m not advocating entry into the euro.’
· But last year, he thought the euro was an ‘anchor’. Last year, Nick Clegg told the Financial Times that the euro would ‘anchor’ countries against the ‘vulnerable exposure to international financial markets.’ (The Financial Times, 21 January 2010)
· And his manifesto advocates joining the euro. ‘We believe that it is in Britain’s long-term interest to be part of the euro.’ (Liberal Democrat Manifesto 2010, page 67)
Trying to hide his policy for an amnesty for 600,000 illegal immigrants
· Nick Clegg tries to hide his amnesty policy. ‘I'm not advocating an amnesty…’
· But Nick Clegg has previously called his policy a ‘selective amnesty’. ‘And most controversially in our proposals…also establishing a selective amnesty, if you like, a route to earned legalisation for the up to 600,000 people who have being living in this country invisibly, illegally, often exploited by unscrupulous employers and others.’ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/video/2007/sep/18/nick.clegg, approximately one minute into video)
· And his manifesto promises illegal immigrants an amnesty. ‘We will allow people who have been in Britain without the correct papers for ten years… live here long-term to earn their citizenship.’ (Liberal Democrat Manifesto 2010, page 76)
Trying to hide the facts about immigration from outside the EU
· Nick Clegg tries to hide facts about non-EU immigration to the UK. ‘You say numbers, can you now tell me, am I right or wrong that 80 per cent of people who come here come from the European Union…?’
· But official statistics show Nick Clegg is completely wrong. In 2008, net foreign migration was 251,000 of which 63,000 or 25 per cent was from the EU. Over the past five years the average has been 31 per cent (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=15053 Table 2.01a)
Trying to hide his benefits policy
· Nick Clegg tries to hide his real benefits policy. ‘We all agree benefits should be conditioned. We all agree they shouldn't be dished out for free if people refuse to take up work.’
· But his DWP spokesman says benefits should not be conditional. Asked about the Lib Dem benefits policy today, Lib Dem Work and Pensions Spokesman Steve Webb said: ‘[Questioner] “Just a very quick yes, no question. If somebody, long term unemployed, or, or even more recently, turns down the first job offer, will you do what the other two are doing which is remove their benefits after two weeks or after a month?” [Steve Webb]: “No we won’t because what we need to do is look at the demand for work, and there’s not really enough of that...”’ (Daily Politics, BBC 2, 29 April 2010)
Trying to hide his VAT bombshell on houses
· Nick Clegg tries to hide VAT bombshell on housing. ‘…the second thing we need to do is invest in the kind of things we need…Affordable housing...’
· But his manifesto promises to levy VAT on new homes. Liberal Democrats would make it more difficult for first-time buyers to get onto the housing ladder. They want to levy VAT on new homes, which currently is zero-rated: ‘We will equalise VAT on new build and repair.’ (Liberal Democrat Manifesto 2010, page 81)
I disagree, The LibDems are advocating some pretty 'out there' policies, Road charging, immigration amnesties, local income tax, VAT on new build houses including low income housing and so on. He actually wants to tax the poorer sections of society more, not less.
He wants to cut working tax credit and child tax credit far more than the Conservatives, who just say people earning more than £50k do not need child tax credit. The policies do not advocate a fairer society, regardless of what Cleggs soundbites may say.
Economies rely on private businesses, not Governments. To support business is not a bad thing or an indication of stupidity as you claim.
Haha, I guess this is where I'm cynical. No matter what happens I can't see there being any improvement in our politics in the long term and so would rather not see the short term pain, especially as a lot of the people I deal with day to day would be on the sharp end of that pain.
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