Public sector employment

[Raumarik]

Completely made up number, the point was that 100% of your wage comes from taxation so it costs them nothing in taxes to not pay it. All of that "lost" tax revenue they gain from you they save by not paying you in the first place and then some.

They'll still have to pay benefits, which aren't any cheaper than what most low paid public sector workers earn once you factor in housing benefit etc.

Lets face it, it's not the managers who'll lose their jobs but the cleaners, porters and other low paid staff. That's after all of the private contractors obviously.

 

[RDM]

They'll still have to pay benefits, which aren't any cheaper than what most low paid public sector workers earn once you factor in housing benefit etc.

Lets face it, it's not the managers who'll lose their jobs but the cleaners, porters and other low paid staff. That's after all of the private contractors obviously.

I didn't say it was a good or a bad thing, I just said that your argument didn't make any sense.

 

[Raumarik]

Yeah it's OK RDM I rarely make sense

 

[Goberpiles316]

They need a watchdog to oversee public spending, I wont go into some of the crap my Council has paid for lately when they are making 5m savings and cutting 70 jobs.

Some of the job cuts have a direct effect on me, more work when I just dont have the resources or the trained staff to deal with it, meaning standards will drop, meaning more complaints to deal with that take up more of the time I just dont have.

Everyone can jump on the badwagon of kill public sector workers, but dont start complaining when you receive a waste collection once a month, or have to wait 12 months for a hospital appointment.

 

[PMKeates]

The Government is actually sitting on a profit on the bank bailout now. The main reason for the mess is the Labour Governments inability to balance the books during the entire 00s, despite us being in boom times.

Quite. Before the financial crisis hit Gordon was spending money like it was going out of fashion. The recession, and the reduction in tax receipts that caused (the best prediction for 2009/10 was £608 Bn - post recession this was £507.5), sent Gordon's pretty wanton debt plans in to orbit. If you look at the figures it was planning for debt, then planning for more debt, then more debt and then oh, recession, the house of cards has fallen down.

Let's take a walk down memory lane...

Budget 2001

Public sector net debt | 2001/02 estimate: £307 Bn; 2005/06 projection: £365 Bn

Budget 2002

Public sector net debt | 2002/03 estimate: £326 Bn; 2006/07 projection: £408 Bn

Budget 2003

Public sector net debt | 2003/04 estimate: £367 Bn; 2007/08 projection: £472 Bn

Budget 2004

Public sector net debt | 2004/05 estimate: £416 Bn; 2008/09 projection: £537 Bn

Budget 2005

Public sector net debt | 2005/06 estimate: £452 Bn; 2009/10 projection: £573 Bn

Budget 2006

Public sector net debt | 2006/07 estimate: £493 Bn; 2010/11 projection: £619 Bn

Budget 2007

Public sector net debt | 2007/08 estimate: £540 Bn; 2011/12 projection: £668 Bn

Budget 2008

Public sector net debt | 2008/09 estimate: £581 Bn; 2012/13 projection: £731 Bn

Budget 2009

Public sector net debt | 2009/10 estimate: £792 Bn; 2013/14 projection: £1370 Bn

Budget 2010

Public sector net debt | 2010/11 estimate: £952 Bn; 2014/15 projection: £1406 Bn

 

[Floogie]

That really doesn't make any sense. How could the government miss the 30% or so taxes the public sector worker pays when 100% of their wages come out of taxation?

It would be considerably less than 100% considering that local authorities have various other income streams.

 

[PMKeates]

It would be considerably less than 100% considering that local authorities have various other income streams.

I'm really struggling to think of many?

 

[Floogie]

I'm really struggling to think of many?

Return on existing financial investments, car parking fines, social housing rent, commercial rents, removal of domestic/commercial waste, leisure charges and planning fees are just a few.

 

[Goberpiles316]

I'm really struggling to think of many?

Rates, Council Tax, car park tickets and fines, recycling credits, Fixed penalty notices, income from services such as bulky waste collections, vermin killing, green waste collections, payment for events on Council land, income from consessions on Council land, income from section 106 money from housing and commercial developments, land searches and planning permission, building control, licensing for pubs/clubs and taxis and more I have missed

A hell of a lot actually

 

[mavers]

Ironic given that the main reason for the mess is all the money given to private banks.


M

Yes, lets just blame the bankers....

 

[PMKeates]

Return on existing financial investments, car parking fines, social housing rent, commercial rents, removal of domestic/commercial waste, leisure charges and planning fees are just a few.

Rates, Council Tax, car park tickets and fines, recycling credits, Fixed penalty notices, income from services such as bulky waste collections, vermin killing, green waste collections, payment for events on Council land, income from consessions on Council land, income from section 106 money from housing and commercial developments, land searches and planning permission, building control, licensing for pubs/clubs and taxis and more I have missed

An involuntary fee levied on corporations or individuals that is enforced by a level of government in order to finance government activities.

Most of those are just indirect taxes on private activity, or they are investments made with money raised from private activity through taxation.

It's why I said earlier that this argument always comes down to whether you believe private or public enterprise can provide the most effective means of production. Every single tax, levy, fee, rate, fine, permission slip, license etc. is just a limit/cost burden on private activity that funds the public sector. The council just has these magical revenue-raising rights and powers given to it by the government.

 

[rmuir]

in my situation i think its far preferable to have a publicly accountable body in charge of the operations.

 

[PMKeates]

in my situation i think its far preferable to have a publicly accountable body in charge of the operations.

In many instances there are, especially when it comes to matters of safety, well-being or protection of the person. I think any public body operating for reasons outside of that needs to have a very good justification for it's existence.

 

[rmuir]

In many instances there are, especially when it comes to matters of safety, well-being or protection of the person. I think any public body operating for reasons outside of that needs to have a very good justification for it's existence.

Thankfully I'm within that boundary, the job I/We do is painstaking, however the site as a whole has made considerable efforts to save money/change attitudes.

The jobs that are here need doing and, in my opinion, money can only be saved so far, safe delivery has got to come first.

 

[PMKeates]

What is it you do?

 

[BigglesPiP]

LOL, it's open season and private sector employees once again meet terrified public sector employees head on. Nothing divides friendly groups up better than an election.

 

[rmuir]

I work in nuclear decommissioning, been there for the last 3.5 years. In a country the size of ours its not a job that can be rushed.

We had Americans over, at great expense, their ideology on the process was knock the plant down and move on. Of course, over there, it's far easier to adopt that policy as they have a far greater land mass, they just 'set and forget'.

 

[Gob]

Learn polish or russian, you'll do good!

 

[Goberpiles316]

Most of those are just indirect taxes on private activity, or they are investments made with money raised from private activity through taxation.

It's why I said earlier that this argument always comes down to whether you believe private or public enterprise can provide the most effective means of production. Every single tax, levy, fee, rate, fine, permission slip, license etc. is just a limit/cost burden on private activity that funds the public sector. The council just has these magical revenue-raising rights and powers given to it by the government.

You cant have it both ways, without items such as licenses, enforcement on parking on street, fines it would just be anarchy surely?

Why not Let everyone do what they want when they want, let the streets get full of litter, park where you like, flytip rubbish in every street you can find, let people run as a taxi service without being tested.

Lets take waste, the Council I work out for gets 47p per week per household for a refuse collection, lets make it private then, do you believe your get waste picked up weekly for 47p.... dream on its not going to happen.

We can already see what the private firms like NCP have done with car parks, no one can afford to go near them without first getting a loan.

 

[Captain_Slick]

There are too many people employed in the Public Sector. There needs to be a migration to the Private Sector, which will hopefully assist with the recovery. There will be some cuts, but that's life.

That's the entire point of not making cuts until next year. To ensure that there will be jobs for these people to migrate to. At the moment, there isn't.