UFC 113: Machida vs. Shogun 2

[HighlandeR]

totaly agree with you NokkonWud

I think Frank Mir is just awesome, he has so much going for him and its tragic too see his last lost It was just bad seeing him pinned up against the cage like that and he couldnt escape.

Regardless of the situation yeah I hope he goes back to his roots and goes back to submission/ground game where he can make heavy weights sweat and break.

As for Cain Velasquez and Shane Carwin they are sort of the next gen heavy weight fighters and I belive there both undefeated and just hungry for Brocks belt and pride. Having said that Brock still owes Mir another match but perhaps after Frank Mir has had a 3 or 4 fight straight win streak again.

And we never know If Brock looses in July we might see a Mir rematch sooner.

I

 

[HighlandeR]

if i remember coreectly gsp nearly snapped hardys arm off lol ?

I remember that I had too sit up and hold my own arm as I watched that lol

I was expecting too see another Frank mir popping/breaking slyvias arm moment... I still dont know how the referee was able too see it pop out and stop the fight some excellent refereeing.

Wonder if gps did ever figure out why it never worked

 

[roid]

The biggest prospect in the HW division is Junior Dos Santos.

He is the real deal and still stupidly young at 25.

 

[SMN]

HW division is stacked at the moment though - its terrifying to think. Lesnar, Nogeuira, Cain Velasquez, Shane Carwin, Frank Mir, Junior Dos Santos... Crazy.

 

[Xordium]

HW division is stacked at the moment though - its terrifying to think. Lesnar, Nogeuira, Cain Velasquez, Shane Carwin, Frank Mir, Junior Dos Santos... Crazy.

Except it does not have the main man there. Great match-ups compared to a few years ago for sure but you still want the World's No.1 in there.

 

[NokkonWud]

The biggest prospect in the HW division is Junior Dos Santos.

He is the real deal and still stupidly young at 25.

I absolutely love Junior Dos Santos, the boy has dynamite in those fists of his, but whether he could live with the sheer size of Carwin & Lesnar, I'm not sure. I would love to see Velasquez vs Dos Santos, but even Velasquez may be a little too big. Dos Santos vs Fedor would make me pee my pants with excitement though.

However, he has the most exciting standing game in UFC, for me currently, he is, with his fists, what Crocop was with his feet in his heyday.

Except it does not have the main man there. Great match-ups compared to a few years ago for sure but you still want the World's No.1 in there.

I assume you're talking about Fedor? I'm not so sure, he really hasn't fought a top fighter for a long time now, and certainly not one on top of his game. I would love to see Fedor in the UFC, however, there is no doubting that his management don't. If it's true, and he is avoiding Overeem, then they certainly won't want him facing Carwin, Lesnar et al.

 

[SMN]

I (shock) agree with NokkonWud; Fedor is avoiding Overeem and his management team know that his draw as undefeated is much higher fighting not-as-good (within reason) fighters, than taking part in tough battles and potentially losing that record and "undefeated" moniker..

Good business; terrible for a fighter. Fedor is a sellout IMHO until he fights Brock and co.

 

[Xordium]

I assume you're talking about Fedor? I'm not so sure, he really hasn't fought a top fighter for a long time now, and certainly not one on top of his game. I would love to see Fedor in the UFC, however, there is no doubting that his management don't. If it's true, and he is avoiding Overeem, then they certainly won't want him facing Carwin, Lesnar et al.

Yes of course I was one about Fedor! I can see why people write him off - say his age is catching up with him (bad logic really with the ages of Carwin and Brock who also have far less experience). I do still think Fedor is the No.1 but I do agree it is about time he started showing us.

What Fedor does have though is a smoothness of transition between ranges that is not often present in MMA fighters and pretty much non-existent in the HW division. This is where I think his strength really lies. What I mean about this is say you have Brock standing - his thought pattern is - boxing range can I move to takedown yes/no now I am in a clinch what do I do in a clinch. Where as with Fedor it is move a natural flow between styles and moves at different ranges eg his casting punch if hits knocks you out otherwise it wraps around neck and he immediately throws. He does not transition between striking/clinch/ground etc with a change of tactics depending on where he finds himself he fluidly moves between with a consistent style. (If anyone actually understands me well done as I don't know really how to explain this and this is the best you are going to get!!!)

 

[SMN]

I think what you are trying to say is he can transition beetween disciplines much quicker than most heavyweights; turn a hook into a hip toss etc? I agree, hes no push over - but until he fights UFC i wont recognise him as world number 1. I watched him vs Arlovski and i thought Arlovski had him rattled until he went for a dumb flying knee and got KO'd.

 

[Xordium]

I think what you are trying to say is he can transition beetween disciplines much quicker than most heavyweights; turn a hook into a hip toss etc? I agree, hes no push over - but until he fights UFC i wont recognise him as world number 1. I watched him vs Arlovski and i thought Arlovski had him rattled until he went for a dumb flying knee and got KO'd.

I guess I am saying he doesn't even transition full stop - guess that is a testament to the flexibility of sambo.

I think before they get Fedor in the UFC it might be good if the UFC decides who their No 1 HW because to me it is not too clear atm. As for AA yes Fedor looked in trouble but hey he does that in every fight (was the same with Rogers) and still wins. I will always think it's great in these days of athletic physiques, on all the magazines etc, that a chubby balding bloke KTFO all and sundry. In my eyes that's the best part.

 

[Smit]

I think before they get Fedor in the UFC it might be good if the UFC decides who their No 1 HW because to me it is not too clear atm.

Their best HW is surely the winner of Brock v Carwin at UFC 116 (think it's that one)?
Sure someone else can claim to be better but that will always be the case in any division. No one is unbeatable.

 

[Zip]

Their best HW is surely the winner of Brock v Carwin at UFC 116 (think it's that one)?
Sure someone else can claim to be better but that will always be the case in any division. No one is unbeatable.

After watching a couple of brocks fights i really really hope he gets his face punched in

 

[The IPB]

I think what you are trying to say is he can transition beetween disciplines much quicker than most heavyweights; turn a hook into a hip toss etc? I agree, hes no push over - but until he fights UFC i wont recognise him as world number 1. I watched him vs Arlovski and i thought Arlovski had him rattled until he went for a dumb flying knee and got KO'd.

There was a whole thread on Sherdog about this, and they had loads of gifs of Fedor vs Arlovski, watching back he hardly got hit at all.

He has a very strange defensive technique where he puts his arms out instead of covering up. I'll see if I can find the thread.

Can't find the Sherdog one with a quick search, but this: http://www.mmaforum.com/affliction/50824-arlovski-vs-fedor-slow-motion-pics.html has the same gifs and similair discussion

 

[NokkonWud]

Yes of course I was one about Fedor! I can see why people write him off - say his age is catching up with him (bad logic really with the ages of Carwin and Brock who also have far less experience). I do still think Fedor is the No.1 but I do agree it is about time he started showing us.

They have less in-ring time, but the base of their disciplines are wrestling, which they have both done their whole lives to levels as good as anyone else in the sport.

Saying he did well against Andrei Arlovski isn't saying much at all, this is a guy who has been on a huge downward spiral for a long time. Arlovski's stand-up, tightness of hands is still highly regarded, but he's not the all devastating fighter Velasquez is, nor as aggressive. Fedor would be much more reluctant to fight someone like him for example.

Talking of Frank Mir earlier in the thread, Frank Mir vs Fedor Emelianenko would be something I'd love to watch, two guys capable of beautifully fluid movement and grappling from nowhere.
Saying that, I genuinely believe Frank Mir would win.

 

[Xordium]

Fedor gives the rest of us slightly tubby and very-balding guys hope Stop shattering my illusions.

As for the HW decider - I am hoping Carwin wins purely because I think he seems a decent bloke. However, I wonder whether pursuing a career and MMA will affect his ability overall. Fair play to the bloke though. I personally think Cain would beat both but I know a lot of people would disagree for very good reasons. JDS needs more time to mature. Mir well you never know who is going to turn up sometimes. Mir Fedor would be good - personally if Fedor moves to the UFC I just wish it would be at 205. I just see more interesting fights for him there.

 

[Gypo]

Has Machida woke up yet?

 

[Xordium]

Has Machida woke up yet?

The question is will he be the same fighter some people break permanently after such a loss - I think Machida may be one of those. Sometimes I think the strength comes from his father more than him. I hope not he is a genuinely talented fighter with a great skillset and I want to see him back asap. Although he'll need a good 3-4 months after that KO to get his brain safe again.

 

[MiNxYyY]

What channel is TUF on now? is it bravo?

 

[NokkonWud]

The question is will he be the same fighter some people break permanently after such a loss - I think Machida may be one of those. Sometimes I think the strength comes from his father more than him. I hope not he is a genuinely talented fighter with a great skillset and I want to see him back asap. Although he'll need a good 3-4 months after that KO to get his brain safe again.

He's on a 60 day suspension, you won't see him in another PPV until maybe November/December at the earliest would be my guess.

The break he had (and he definitely had one) actually came from his win over Shogun. I think he realised after the fight that he couldn't figure a way through the guy, which is unusual for someone that talented, but he was left with a puzzle he didn't know how to crack, as a result he went out of his usual game plan and ended up paying the price for it. In the second fight Shogun would come barreling in, but Machida wouldn't get out the way, it's confusing, because when Rashad Evans did it, by the time he got there he was only chasing Machida's shadow.

The fighter who beat Evans would have beaten Shogun, sadly, we saw for the first time, what looked to be a beaten man. It was the same as the BJ Penn vs Frankie Edgar fight only a month back, it soon became apparent that he had no answer (see what I did there) and ended up getting picked off.

What channel is TUF on now? is it bravo?

I believe it's Five USA.

 

[sven256]

They have less in-ring time, but the base of their disciplines are wrestling, which they have both done their whole lives to levels as good as anyone else in the sport.

Saying he did well against Andrei Arlovski isn't saying much at all, this is a guy who has been on a huge downward spiral for a long time. Arlovski's stand-up, tightness of hands is still highly regarded, but he's not the all devastating fighter Velasquez is, nor as aggressive. Fedor would be much more reluctant to fight someone like him for example.

Talking of Frank Mir earlier in the thread, Frank Mir vs Fedor Emelianenko would be something I'd love to watch, two guys capable of beautifully fluid movement and grappling from nowhere.
Saying that, I genuinely believe Frank Mir would win.

I'm sorry but I would not even rank frank mir in the top 10 heavy weights, i don't buy into ufc hype.

He has little cardio, he can not really take a punch and when he does he begins to fade fast.

He has only one good win under his belt, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira but lets face it he has not looked good as of late.

All the rest are setup wins, fighters with 0 ground game. Fighters like Wes Sims, David Abbott, Antoni Hardonk, Cheick Kongo And all of these are not what you call grade a fighters

I have left his win over brock out due to the fact i think if mir and brock fought 100 times, brock would win at least 95 out of the 100. It was his second fight, he was hyped up, and he made a mistake one i don't see happening again.