Apple is now bigger than Microsoft

[FreeStream]

OSX is little more than a customised gui on top of BSD in the same sense that Gnome is on top of the linux kernel, you could argue how OSX cost so much compared to the likes of Ubuntu?

I don't quite see how you can compare Linux to OS X, it might come from the base code/ideas but really the 'ease of use' is different and support is even less than OS X!

I used to use Ubuntu, and that required more work than Windows did! In fairness that was two years ago.

The point people are missing is as an advanced user I WANT it to be simple, I have CAD/CFD and god knows what else to concentrate on instead of wondering why the hell my Laptops share isn't running.

Time to do things is more important than time spent tinkering. Used to tinker on self built hardware but there are more important things in life now.

 

[Strife212]

I love intelligent debate in OcUK, this forum is getting the respect it deserves.

It's simply laughable that you think every company uses Linux for everything. Hardly any do for the majority of tasks.

Theres no intelligent debate because you have some totally unreal ideas and wont listen to anyone else.

 

[rypt]

The thing with Mac is ... anything it can do, Linux can do better - the only thing lacking from Linux are major software houses (Adobe) making their software available

 

[Robbo]

It's simply laughable that you think every company uses Linux for everything. Hardly any do for the majority of tasks.

Theres no intelligent debate because you have some totally unreal ideas and wont listen to anyone else.

He's only trying to convince himself that the hugely inflated prices he paid for Apple products are worth it, when in reality they are not

 

[FreeStream]

The thing with Mac is ... anything it can do, Linux can do better - the only thing lacking from Linux are major software houses (Adobe) making their software available

Would you like to back up that statement with some proof?

Also your definition of "better" may be different from someone elses.

Edit:

He's only trying to convince himself that the hugely inflated prices he paid for Apple products are worth it, when in reality they are not

Again, opinion with nothing to back it up. Why do you think that?

 

[LizardKing]

I'm betting a hugely significant proportion of their profit is from iTunes and AppStore.

You'll find Apple make very little money from the app store, most of it is soaked up by the obscene running/development costs.

I don't quite see how you can compare Linux to OS X, it might come from the base code/ideas but really the 'ease of use' is different and support is even less than OS X!

I used to use Ubuntu, and that required more work than Windows did! In fairness that was two years ago.

2 years is a long time in Linux development, you may want to try the latest Ubuntu (or any distro with the latest Gnome), it has come on leaps and bounds in the last year. It surprised me the other day when i plugged in a random wifi dongle and with no intervention from myself it told me it had found wireless networks, i dont think you can get any easier than that.
I'd also just like to point out that OSx does in some case's use drivers that have derived from Linux drivers, and in some cases the Linux drivers can be installed straight onto a Mac. The only thing lacking with Linux is its very small software library. (Adobe, Autodesk etc)

I've no criticism's towards apple hardware/software, i just dont like there business model and the misinformation they send out to there users. Not to mention the massive ego that a lot (notice i didnt say all ) of its followers seem to gain when they purchase there hardware.

 

[Robbo]

Again, opinion with nothing to back it up. Why do you think that?

Why do I need to backup an opinion? Especially to Apple fans who (as demonstrated) wont listen to any kind of reasoning.

 

[FreeStream]

Why do I need to backup an opinion? Especially to Apple fans who (as demonstrated) wont listen to any kind of reasoning.

I'm not an apple "fan" in any shape or form. I use both and feel OS X is better.

It's my opinion from years of experience, where do your opinions come from?

2 years is a long time in Linux development, you may want to try the latest Ubuntu (or any distro with the latest Gnome), it has come on leaps and bounds in the last year. It surprised me the other day when i plugged in a random wifi dongle and with no intervention from myself it told me it had found wireless networks, i dont think you can get any easier than that.
I'd also just like to point out that OSx does in some case's use drivers that have derived from Linux drivers, and in some cases the Linux drivers can be installed straight onto a Mac. The only thing lacking with Linux is its very small software library. (Adobe, Autodesk etc)

I've no criticism's towards apple hardware/software, i just dont like there business model and the misinformation they send out to there users. Not to mention the massive ego that a lot (notice i didnt say all ) of its followers seem to gain when they purchase there hardware.

Might have a play in Ubuntu in VMWare during the summer then, see how things have changed.

However in day to day use and seeing as i've got everything I need in OS X/Windows I will never actually turn to Linux, it will only ever be a play thing!

 

[FreeStream]

Edit: Gah hopeless double post!

 

[Robbo]

I'm not an apple "fan" in any shape or form. I use both and feel OS X is better.

It's my opinion from years of experience, where do your opinions come from?

I'd say I'm probably not as experienced as you (provided what you are saying is true), but I know more than enough to form myself an opinion on things.

I have absolutely no problem with Apple products, and if there was something I wanted made by them, I would have no hesitation buying it.

People who are blind to the fact that Apple products offer very little in the way of freedom and cost often a considerable amount more than other options, are what annoys me. The vast majority of them (not you specifically) will spend their time rubbishing Microsoft/Google and god knows what else and it's really quite silly.

 

[FreeStream]

I'd say I'm probably not as experienced as you (provided what you are saying is true), but I know more than enough to form myself an opinion on things.

I have absolutely no problem with Apple products, and if there was something I wanted made by them, I would have no hesitation buying it.

People who are blind to the fact that Apple products offer very little in the way of freedom and cost often a considerable amount more than other options, are what annoys me. The vast majority of them (not you specifically) will spend their time rubbishing Microsoft/Google and god knows what else and it's really quite silly.

This is where I started with macs: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_performa/stats/mac_performa_630.html
Mac: Performa 630, Powermac 6100, 7600, 8*00, Beige G3, B&W G3, MDD G4, iBook, MacBook Pro x2, Mac Pro
PC: Some sort of high street PCs, then Dells then about 2001 started self builds with P4s, then XP, XP-M 2500+, 64 X2, finally C2D.

I've never really encountered this "freedom" thing some people go on about. Yes it would be nice to have X, Y, Z but A, B, C more than make up for it.

As for MS/Google, competition is good right? Although flash needs to die for internet video!!!

 

[Gerard]

Although flash needs to die for internet video!!!

Why exactly? Because lord jobs has decreed it so? I find it funny that he bashes flash then the hordes of apple drones are on the bandwagon immediately. Just have to look at the utter embarrassment that is "applesoldier" on youtube to get a good idea of what a mindless drone looks and acts like.

 

[AMG]

I could get used to OS X, but I don't have the money to buy one, plus I will probable find myself using linux/windows a lot more.

I get on a lot better with windows than what I do with linux or OS X and windows does that job.


everything gets virus the only reason why windows gets the most is because its the most widely used, not because its valuable.

whats wrong with flash? Cowon uses it to operate thier gadgets, gives users the ability to *change* stuff

 

[FreeStream]

Why exactly? Because lord jobs has decreed it so? I find it funny that he bashes flash then the hordes of apple drones are on the bandwagon immediately. Just have to look at the utter embarrassment that is "applesoldier" on youtube to get a good idea of what a mindless drone looks and acts like.

The reason I want flash to die for video is because having a wrapper around a video seems utterly utterly pointless, why not have HTML5 video tags on a H264 or OGG or DivX video instead?

Also due to the stupid amounts of CPU time it takes (although admittedly less than on Windows).

You know these issues against flash could have started before Jobs said he wasn't going to allow it on the iPhone...

And im talking flash as a VIDEO PLAYER not as a interactive thing

 

[Gerard]

The reason I want flash to die for video is because having a wrapper around a video seems utterly utterly pointless, why not have HTML5 video tags on a H264 or OGG or DivX video instead?

Also due to the stupid amounts of CPU time it takes (although admittedly less than on Windows).

You know these issues against flash could have started before Jobs said he wasn't going to allow it on the iPhone...

And im talking flash as a VIDEO PLAYER not as a interactive thing

Flash does seem better optomised for windows i'll say that much. Far as im aware theyre cutting down its requirements for mobile devices, still in the works though.

 

[mrk]

Flash BETA has been out a long time now offering GPU acceleration and right now the mobile beta versions offer partial hardware acceleration. It's only going to get better as it rolls out of BETA and into RC.

Not all sites offer Flash video encoding with h264/divs video because those formats need to be licensed via their owners which is why Google and Mozilla (and now Opera) are working toward the greater good and offering royalty free VP8 video which compares very closely to h264 for quality (if not identical) and has hardware acceleration. almost all the big names are backing it too, except Apple...

 

[Cuchulain]

I'm sorry do you have some irrational hatred for people with Apple equipment?

Just so we can get this across clearly.

I PREFER OS X TO DO WORK ON.

Just because you don't think it's worth spending x more on a Apple product doesn't mean people who have (now 15 years experience) of using both, building self hardware and doing god knows what with systems should be put down by you.

My money. My time. My choice.

OS X > Windows for what I do. End of.

Christ why can't some people accept this point. Or is that the reason why they come up with "Fanboy" because they can't get their very possibly narrow minded heads around the fact other people want different things.

Edit:



Thats in a Corporate/Large Network environment, Im more talking about at home I have naff all idea about corporation setups

How about because we're not just talking about you, however, you do typify the average Apple user and just FYI, I have an iPhone, an iPod Touch, I've always owned iPods and even have a Hackintosh to cater to the computer illiterate customers I have to deal with.

The difference is, I know my iPhone is no longer the latest and greatest and also accept that my iPod touch isn't expandable and the sound quality is rubbish.

 

[LordSplodge]

Nope; didn't consider that. After a very brief look, £800 seemed to be the correct figure for a 27" IPS TFT.

If buying direct from Apple, your iMac is £1634. Shopping around, I saw a couple for £1500. So we'll stick to that lower price. We have £700 left then for the machine components. I'm being deliberately generous with pricing.

i5: £150.
mobo: £150.
HD4670: £50.
4gig RAM: £130.
1 TB hdd: £80.
Case: £100.
OSX: £25.
Kb/mouse £50
Optical drive £20

£755. In the right ball park. OK, so if we were to use enthusiast quality parts then the cost is approaching where it should be.

That's a big if, however.

I assume that your home brew computer will run OS X so I can run Final Cut Studio, OminFocus, Pages and so on and also come in one the best looking designs on the market?

Nope thought not. It will be in a square box next to the monitor!

Apple hating seems to be the cool thing to do nowadays. I'll take a Mac over a PC because it runs the tools I need, is very well built and as a bonus looks damn good.

 

[AMG]

I assume that you home brew computer will run OS X so I can run Final Cut Studio, OminFocus, Pages and so on and also come in one the best looking designs on the market?

Nope thought not. It will be in a square box next to the monitor!

Apple hating seems to be the cool thing to do nowadays. I'll take a Mac over a PC because it runs the tools I need, is very well built and as a bonus looks damn good.

hes hoping it would.lol

 

[Gerard]

I assume that you home brew computer will run OS X so I can run Final Cut Studio, OminFocus, Pages and so on and also come in one the best looking designs on the market?

Nope thought not. It will be in a square box next to the monitor!

Apple hating seems to be the cool thing to do nowadays. I'll take a Mac over a PC because it runs the tools I need, is very well built and as a bonus looks damn good.

One of the best looking designs on the market? LOL Yeah if you want your computer to look like something out of a kitchen catalogue where they have a stiffy for generic boring aluminium maybe.

As for running osx etc, no problems doing that.