I have the worst BB genes ever.

I personally think that 3000 isn't enough for somebody bulking at 13 stone.

And don't worry about genes. I'm 16 and 7 stone, now that's a scary thought :eek:

But I know that when I hit the gym in a few years time I'll be able to gain, in spite of my skinny genes :)
 
Honestly? I would have to say what do you really want to do? I remember your v-diet journal which died after 10 days or something which does make me wonder.

Your post does very much sound like you're doing what your doing as a job not a lifestyle choice - which is not a good thing.

Assuming you started at 12 your v-diet getting to 13 in a 18 months is not entirely unreasonable.
 
You need to eat more. You need to eat more fats too. If you're bulking then 300g of carbs is fine, you could add more. However, I'd also up the protein intake.

1g fat has over 2x the amount of calories than 1g of protein/carbs.

I'd change your routine if you've been doing it for a while. Start training 4x a week - start pushing yourself more. Dont' stick to a 3x8 or 5x5, volume!! Lots of it. Start doing 40-50 reps per exercise and do about 4 exercises per session. Start doing push/pull programs, or one body part per workout, legs, back, chest, shoulders (and add arms if you really want).

Slow the negs down. Get the hunger - hurt yourself a lot.

Move down to London and I'll traing with you - in a month I can guarantee you pain! :D

I was eating burgers at the expo! :D
 
fus said:
Hi guys,

Yes, this is a bit of a moany thread, but so what. :D

OK, well I think I have the worst genes ever. I've been training for 4 years now, with about a 6 month gap after year 2. My diet is as follows, and has been mostly clean for those 4 years;

Wake - protein shake + oats
Snack - pint of milk + protein
Lunch - chicken breast on brown bread + salad
pre gym - 2 toast, banana, protein shake or some tuna
Train
PWO - shake + dextrose + creatine
dinner - chicken / sweet potato / salad or other veggies
pre bed - nuts + cottage cheese.

I think that's pretty decent. Perhaps not perfect, but good enough to gain some pretty good lean mass. However, it looks as if i don't even train. My training is a 3/4 day split based around the big lifts - bench, deads and squat.

I give up. I've had enough and it's annoying beyond belief. I went to the expo and saw countless people drinking beer, eating burger + chips who had a fantastic build. I'm guessing that either (a) they're on the juice, or (b) they have great genes. I bet that most don't put as much thought into it as me, but it comes easier to them. It's awful.

So, I'm going to have a pizza tonight and I don't care. Also, going to the dark side.

Thoughts? Tell me off please. :p
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Where are your carbs coming from ?

I see a couple of slices of brown bread (11g/slice), banana (27.5g), 2xtoast (hopefully wholemeal or brown as well, 11g/slice) and sweet potato (5.6g/serving). So that is around 67-79g dending on whether it is 1 or two slices with the chicken breast. Of that, only 44g are complex (not sure about sweet potato carb rating, complex or not).

The rest of the carbs must be from the dextrose and the protein shakes.

Get more complex carbs in (wholemeal bread, oats/porrige, wholemeal pasta, wholemeal rice). Either take low cal protein or drop the some of the shakes and up the protein from more chicken/fish/tofu etc. When I use protein shakes the low carb one I use has 23g protein to 3g carbs.

Have a quick readup on carbs here.

Apart from that, everything FF said :D.

RB
 
It's such a game of patience sadly.. Up your intake a little, by say 200 kcals.

I would also bring the carbs down to say 250G a day and bring up the green veg and varied meats.

Keep mixing it up. Try new workouts, more/less reps, slower negs, explosive sessions..

If you a truly not enjoying it and frustrated, I do suggest a week off. I bet on the beach you are still a far superior aesthetically looking body than the majority that sit infront of TV everynight with microwave meals. I very much doubt you have hit the limit of what you can achieve naturally.
 
Don't start this bad genes carp again. You might not have the genetics to be one of the best, but you certainly can become better looking than 99% of the population. No one started worse than me (look through the pics thread i've got some starting out pics at ~64k 6ft at 19) you just have to want it. I dunno what you look like now but if it were me I'd forget about 200 more cals or a cheat day once in a blue moon and just shovel it in for a few months.
 
dun said:
I dunno what you look like now but if it were me I'd forget about 200 more cals or a cheat day once in a blue moon and just shovel it in for a few months.
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This.

From what the OP stated he is the "hard-gainer" type and to be honest way too concerned about being slim while at the same tyme being disappointed about trying to put mass on.

Start shoveling some serious callories (keep em reasonably healthy were possible) add 80-100grams of garbs from oats/dextrose post workout to make your own weight gainer and just eat a lot every day.

Come back after 2-3months, even if you gain a bit of fat the mass gain should be noticeable and worth it.
 
dun said:
Don't start this bad genes carp again. You might not have the genetics to be one of the best, but you certainly can become better looking than 99% of the population. No one started worse than me (look through the pics thread i've got some starting out pics at ~64k 6ft at 19) you just have to want it. I dunno what you look like now but if it were me I'd forget about 200 more cals or a cheat day once in a blue moon and just shovel it in for a few months.
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Basically me now! :D
 
I have to weigh in and say that most likely "you're doing in wrong." The title of your thread is an acknowledgement that people are not genetically equal and that you may be unusual. Despite this you've been doing the same things that a 'normal' person does and despite them not working, have persisted. This gave average gains of 15 GRAMS per month over four years, which I think speaks for itself.

(That's not to say you didn't gain good strength, in the deadlift at any rate, so gj on that.)

Action plan:
1) Eat more. Evidently if you've only gained 6.6kg in four years you haven't been eating enough. It's not hard to do; to start off throw in 3 eggs on top of what you eat every day now and see where you go. Your diet is clearly too small because if you were eating a caloric excess but not gaining any muscle because of your evil genes, you'd have gained fat, which you haven't done. I like to think of this quote from T-nation's 5'10, 270lb Professor X when he was moving house: "It took me a while to move my steaks." That's where you want to be.

2) Train more. You may well be able to handle 4 or 5 workouts a week if 3 is proving to be insufficient volume, try it, see how it goes.

3) Train differently. You might be one of the people who respond better to high reps - 15+ reps for 4 sets or something. There are some pro bodybuilders who respond best to very high reps. Since you've been doing 8 reps for 4 years you might get growth out of 16 reps. Try it, find out. Think about adding slow negatives as well.

If you can come back in 6 months time and say "Look, I ate loads more, trained more and trained differently, yet all I got is some fat and 0 muscle gain," THEN you can say you have the worst genes for bodybuilding.
 
As Dun said, shovel in the food!

Judging form your lifts you do well, just replace that bread with rice or sweet potatoes.

Change your snacks to something that burns longer, I have PB and J Sammy, the extra fats from the peanut butter really help and it keeps you full for over an hour and a half.

Your breakfast also seems lacking, have 2-3 eggs with it, whole eggs.

Also I find the after Training shake is highly overrated, I prefer 3 whole eggs and 2 slices of full seeded brown toast with jam.

Also have a snack after dinner before bed aswell, I have another PB and J sammy.

I went from 55kg last may to a good 73 atm. Been training less than a year.

80% of it all is diet.

Check your weight every week. If you notice you've stopped gaining add more food, simple.

On a side note I hate training like a common body builder, powerlifting has done me wonders.

Press, bench, squat, deadlift, BOR's, Chins and Pullups = Strength and size.

Not to mention on weekends I eat what ever I want and how much I want.
 
Sometimes you have to draw a line and move on to something else! Building muscle is extremely difficult to do - especially if you want the kind of physique which stands out from the crowd and makes it obvious you're a bodybuilder.

I was never a bodybuilder, but used to weight train and I've seen very few people gain significant amounts of muscle mass by training naturally. Sure, modest improvements to their physiques were achieved but, with only a couple of exceptions, nothing truely spectacular! I can also think of quite a few guys I know who trained hard and gave up due to lack of results - so you're not alone here!

To give a personal e.g. A neighbour once had a very well equipped gym. He was a bodybuilder who competed at a fairly high amateur level. For a 2 month period I blasted my calves. I kept a written record, and each session I tried to beat what I had done previously. My poundages for all exercises, set for set and rep for rep doubled. I felt I was working them hard but they didn't grow an inch!
 
My brother worked out like crazy and looked athletic, but never got to the BB stage until he hit the 'roids. Never a recommendation, they are damaging to your health, but it was the only way to put on loads of muscle.

I myself had a weight of about 14 stone I could not cross also (12 stone natural weight when not working out). I have a natural athletic build with no fat - more on the thin side.

I'd imagine anyone who looks like a body builder has done the 'roids at some point, although some people are just naturally big (but not usually toned).
 
spirits247 said:
My brother worked out like crazy and looked athletic, but never got to the BB stage until he hit the 'roids. Never a recommendation, they are damaging to your health, but it was the only way to put on loads of muscle.

I myself had a weight of about 14 stone I could not cross also (12 stone natural weight when not working out). I have a natural athletic build with no fat - more on the thin side.

I'd imagine anyone who looks like a body builder has done the 'roids at some point, although some people are just naturally big (but not usually toned).
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What a pile of crap! Juice is not needed at all, all you need is dedication, a good diet and to train properly.
 
Eugh, I really do hate it when people immediately state that a big, muscular guy has taken steroids, and that there is no other possible way of getting to their size. Youtube is full of them. Ignorant idiots.
 
marl said:
Sometimes you have to draw a line and move on to something else! Building muscle is extremely difficult to do - especially if you want the kind of physique which stands out from the crowd and makes it obvious you're a bodybuilder.

I was never a bodybuilder, but used to weight train and I've seen very few people gain significant amounts of muscle mass by training naturally. Sure, modest improvements to their physiques were achieved but, with only a couple of exceptions, nothing truely spectacular! I can also think of quite a few guys I know who trained hard and gave up due to lack of results - so you're not alone here!

To give a personal e.g. A neighbour once had a very well equipped gym. He was a bodybuilder who competed at a fairly high amateur level. For a 2 month period I blasted my calves. I kept a written record, and each session I tried to beat what I had done previously. My poundages for all exercises, set for set and rep for rep doubled. I felt I was working them hard but they didn't grow an inch!
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If your training hard and not getting results, unless you have some sort of genetic problem/health problem, your doing something wrong, simple as that.
 
ben90 said:
If your training hard and not getting results, unless you have some sort of genetic problem/health problem, your doing something wrong, simple as that.
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Really..! Please then direct me to the before and after photo's of all these 'natural bodybuilders' who have achieved outstanding results without having to resort to 'the dark side.'

Please also explain to me why so many pro bodybuilders over the years have 'weak' bodyparts which even they cannot bring up to scratch - what are they doing wrong!

I don't train anymore, as I said I was never a bodybuilder, but if I was doing something wrong, then so were most of the guys I knew, and observed, because few of them achieved results which could have been described as anything other than modest!
 
N19h7m4r3 said:
What a pile of crap! Juice is not needed at all, all you need is dedication, a good diet and to train properly.
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perfectly valid statements.

but you do know that in terms of competitive bodybuidling one is hardly ever going to win even regional competitions without sauce right?

however for the rest uf that train for ourselves just eat/train/sleep! there's plenty of natural potential in everyone.
 
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N19h7m4r3 said:
What a pile of crap! Juice is not needed at all, all you need is dedication, a good diet and to train properly.
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My brother was a pro BB - did shows, used to hang out with all his BB mates. If you are talking about just getting into shape and looking good, fair enough. I'm talking about BB, the big guys in the mags.

To be one of those large BB guys, you need some extra help if your genetics aren't absolutely right. I don't agree with it, and would never advise it. I had the perfect diet and went to the gym 4 days a week with a dedicated program. I could not top 14 stone but looked in great shape. Some people just can't put on weight beyond a certain point, no matter how they eat or train.
 
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