Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

drunkenmaster said:
Where was I fearmongering? I was saying people like you who are being pedantic and the people in this thread who are going on about it being in international waters, media included, would be making the exact opposite argument in the situation I outlined.
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30 miles from the UK is not 90 miles into the Meditteranean though.

drunkenmaster said:
This is my problem with half the people in the thread, they are complaining because they don't like( and don't have a clue about) Israel's behaviour, not because it is in international waters, their arguments will change from one situation to another.
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Not all situations are identical. I wouldn't have a problem if they destroyed rocket launchers in Gaza. Even a pre-emptive strike is legitimate if you have accurate knowledge of an imminent enemy attack (example - armed troops massing on your border).

drunkenmaster said:
I didn't claim anything, I was giving examples of situations where your argument and the "general" arguments would be on exactly the opposite side, IE, as and when it suits people the rules being followed or ignored is up to them on a per situation basis.
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I made an argument specific to this case.

drunkenmaster said:
Its wrong for Israel to flout them, but its fine for other people in situations deemed ok.
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I'd say the same thing if Palestinian commandos seized a civilian Israeli boat 90 miles away.

drunkenmaster said:
As for it being an obvious boat, if something has to be brought in, are you going to try and hide it on the boat most people wouldn't think you'd try to hide on, or the small boat going at night appearing from nowhere without a reason for being there.
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Fair enough, and did they find arms caches?

drunkenmaster said:
Also, on boats that large, you can search all day and still miss a massive cache of arms or 3 terrorists hidden in some passageway you missed.
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Military technology has brought us radio frequency scanners and other devices that can penetrate solid objects (pun not intended).

drunkenmaster said:
I do like the fact you said I like to fearmonger to justify anything, I very VERY specifically am completely opposite to that, I made EXAMPLES of why OTHER people would complain, not things I'm complaining about, I couldn't give two hoots frankly, but peoples stupid arguments in this thread irked me, nothing more or less.
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I didn't call Israel terrorists so your examples are misplaced.

I'm completely against the idea of adding new laws hurting normal people and being justified by ridiculous scaremongering over possible terrorist attacks, I'm completely against changing the way we live/run the country based on sporadic and minimal terrorist attacks, you couldn't have been more incredibly wrong with that statement, or really anything else you've said.
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If you're playing devil's advocate then please say so - I can only take your argument at face value...

DreadNiK said:
so you are telling me that you are certain that the IDF policy for conducting a night-time boarding and seizure of a boat attempting to violate their blockade is to ensure the commandos leading the seizure are carrying radio frequency scanners? and that if they are not then Israel are being duplicitous about their motives?
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It would help them find people as well as other objects, wouldn't it? These were military inventions to begin with. Boarding at night makes it difficult to see so the implication seems to be that the IDF wanted to surprise the occupants by catching them in the dark.
 
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Ivan Drago said:
It's not entirely implausible to think that the Zionist psy-ops knocked this up on a boat back in Israel after the shootings. We can never know.

What is disturbing is the amount of people who condone Israel's actions through decades of indoctrination that has taught them that the existence of Israel and anything it chooses to do is good and Palestinians are bad.

The same people that quote Aparthied SA as the worst government to ever have existed will be the same people the champion the right of God's chosen race of people to bulldoze their way through the Middle East killing, ethnically cleansing their way to a Zionist Empire.
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wow. That's an awful lot of stupid for one short post.
 
Ivan Drago said:
It's not entirely implausible to think that the Zionist psy-ops knocked this up on a boat back in Israel after the shootings. We can never know.
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Yes, it pretty much is. Especially when the idea is proposed by someone who uses the same language as Hamas and the Iranian government.
 
sanaxe1 said:
its all kicking off


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/turkey-threatens-action-israel-on-alert/116743-2.html
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Its not unpredictable... if the turkish send naval units to enforce breach of the israeli blockade... they will be fired upon... at which point the whole issue will be pulled up infront of whatever world organisation has "jurisdiction". Both sides will see it as an act of war.

It would be an unfortunate move because either Turkey will be asked to stand down (being in the process of joining the EU and all) or it will turn into all out war the most likely result being turkey being bombed into the stone age by Israel to prevent them getting the upper hand in more conventional war.
 
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I'm assuming that's just a bit of posturing by Turkey as they're a bit ****** off at the moment - but if they actually did do that then.... yikes.

They are a NATO member - would put the US in an awkward position if the IDF attacked a Turkish warship in international waters.
 
Stolly said:
What ?
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"A millimeter wave scanner is a whole body imaging device ..

Clothing and other organic materials are translucent in some extremely high frequency (millimeter wave) radio frequency bands. This frequency range is just below the (related) sub-millimeter "Terahertz radiation" (or "T-ray") range."
 
If i was stabbed or beaten with a pole I would have defended myself. The soldiers had guns it would have been the first thing in their hand and without thinking and reacting under presure if they used them I wouldnt blame them. I feel sorry for anyone that was killed that didnt have a weapon or was staying out of the way but any of the people attacking the soldier really cant expect to have been given hugs and hand shakes when attacking someone REGARDLESS what they used to act the person with.

Also given that weapons have been spoken about whether true or not. If the peaceful aid workers started to fire on IDF whats to say they didnt kill some of the people trying to stay out of the way.

Once again as we dont know how can we say for sure.
 
meghatronic said:
You're talking about the guy who used to post pictures of American/British soldiers burning in Iraq.
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You should be upset with the media for making them available for us to post at all then...

As for the commandos, I simply asked for proof that any were shot or killed. Any other inference is your own.
 
Stolly said:
Yes, it pretty much is. Especially when the idea is proposed by someone who uses the same language as Hamas and the Iranian government.
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Hamas speak Arabic and the Iranians speak Farsi.

You don't think Mossad has people who can speak Arabic? How do they run their networks inside Gaza/West bank/Arab countries?

The video could be genuine but it could be faked. It's not like Israel does not have the means/motivation to do this. It's a media war - all sides are doing it.

It's quite funny when the ignorant sheeple call me 'stupid' when they don't realise how clueless they are about the situation.
 
sr4470 said:
You should be upset with the media for making them available for us to post at all then...
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No one made you post them. As you remember I objected at the time and mods agreed.

Anyway, sidetrack :)

The anti-Israelis wont believe anything Israel says and vice versa. Israel have provided two videos that paint the other side in a very harsh light.
 
The Turkish armed forces are the among the largest in the world, with a standing Army of around 600,000 men. They're generally considered well trained, disciplined and equipped. Israel would be extremely foolish, if not stupid to risk a head on confrontation with such a force. And if they're even stupider to attack Turkey itself, then they risk the Turkish government requesting NATO help, as is their right as full NATO members.
 
meghatronic said:
No one made you post them. As you remember I objected at the time and mods agreed.

Anyway, sidetrack :)
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Then why derail the thread? The burning soldier on the Warrior was the lead picture on multiple media reports, I don't remember linking the reports being banned. But whatever, it was a while ago...and I don't wish to further ad hominem attacks.

meghatronic said:
The anti-Israelis wont believe anything Israel says and vice versa. Israel have provided two videos that paint the other side in a very harsh light.
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I don't see the situation as black and white. See post 161 for example.
 
The Funktopus said:
The Turkish armed forces are the among the largest in the world, with a standing Army of around 600,000 men. They're generally considered well trained, disciplined and equipped. Israel would be extremely foolish, if not stupid to risk a head on confrontation with such a force. And if they're even stupider to attack Turkey itself, then they risk the Turkish government requesting NATO help, as is their right as full NATO members.
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Which is why I said as above, if they did run the blockade and didn't stand down Israel would end up bombing them back into the stone age before they could engage on a conventional military theatre, Israel would have no choice and would not back down.
 
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