Advice on starting an I.T career

LiE · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:21

I started off at University and after a while decided that most of the material being taught was a waste of time, so I left. My goal was to teach myself what I needed to know to get a job in web development. While I was doing this I took a job at retail which happened to be a life changing decision. I became good friends with one of the guys at work, who later left to get a job in IT recruitment.

A few months after he left I got a call asking me if I wanted to be put forward for a consultant job where they were looking to train people from the ground up. So I went for it and got the job. 3 years later I'm still with the same company and doing very well, I have recently been offered a job at a better company for more money/prospects. The work at times can be quite stressful but the pay takes that into account. I think I was very lucky in landing on my feet and I'm now setup on a career path for the rest of my life.

Mr^B · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:22

Relentless81 said:
Ah the predictable back lash I was expecting, what the degree grade is and where it was from is not relevant, a degree in any other field will get you a job but in IT with Admin jobs going for £14k a year and what they expect for that £14k is jokes. You can earn more in Tesco's stacking shelves

You can't say it's not relevant, as it's entirely relevant to whether or not he could make it onto a "proper" blue-chip graduate recruitment scheme, or whether you'll have to start at the bottom. As I said, 4 out of 5 comp sci grads DO get jobs. And like everything else, you have to earn your place - you start at £14k because you weren't good enough to get on a decent grad placement scheme. I started on a grad placement scheme on £14k ish, and I've done OK since then...

Relentless81 said:
I didnt say I cannot be bothered to train, I said I refuse to constantly study, I have trained and have proof, Microsoft certified courses and NVQ's etc but still cant get a job earning anywhere near what I was earning as a sales monkey sat on the end of a phone all day

That's the difference between a job and a vocation though. If you were earning more as a sales monkey, why did you quit and do something else? Was it to take a drop in salary in order to do a job you thought you would find more satisfying?

MS Certs and NVQs aren't really worth much on their own, you need to work hard and get noticed (or be seen to be working hard), get some experience (just length of time will do) and either move around internally every 12-18 months or so, or if you can't do that you need to move to another company.

Relentless81 · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:26

Wicksta said:
I don't mean to be rude but with such a 'can't be bothered' attitude you aren't likely to succeed in many occupations. I study what I need to learn and after 15 years working in IT I love my current job more than ever. If you can't be bothered to study then of course you'll be stuck doing the same thing day in and day out until whatever you look after becomes completely obsolete, then you'll have no job and no knowledge to fall back on. I've seen it happen many times to people with the same attitude.

I've already done the studying did you read my last post? Did you read the other peoples comments in this thread about experiance > qualifications? All the people I have met who have MCSE's etc are great at theory and talking about IT but when it comes to motivation and actually doing the job they never seem to be able to put anything into practice!

I've been trying to get a job with nearly 5 years experiance on a 300 user 3 site WAN and out of all the jobs i've applied for i've been offered one which I turned down.

My attitude is fine, i'm just sharing my experiance and actually yes I do want out ASAP back into a monkey job on the phones or customer service or something along those lines because IT support is watered down and extremely boring!

mrbios · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:27

Don't listen to those who tell you to start in a 1st line support role, because thats where you really will get grind down and start to hate IT, my advice: start in a school or similar, you learn far more working in a school than you will in some trashy first line support job (voice of experience) there is a much wider range of things to learn, you can learn them freely, you get training oppurtunitys (assuming you have a decent manager) it gives you a lot more time to earn, get experience and decide which are of IT you want to specialise in in the future.

starfighter · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:30

I did Business Studies at Uni, dropped out, got a job in IT support and then got a promotion.

Now I do more interesting stuff but there is still much to learn and more money and interesting work if I can be bothered.

I consider myself to have quite a cushy well paid job, so for now I am chilling.

My advice is don't get stuck in 1st line support for too long and won't be awful. For the really good jobs I don't know that secret yet.

Relentless81 · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:30

Mr^B said:
You can't say it's not relevant, as it's entirely relevant to whether or not he could make it onto a "proper" blue-chip graduate recruitment scheme, or whether you'll have to start at the bottom. As I said, 4 out of 5 comp sci grads DO get jobs. And like everything else, you have to earn your place - you start at £14k because you weren't good enough to get on a decent grad placement scheme. I started on a grad placement scheme on £14k ish, and I've done OK since then...

That's the difference between a job and a vocation though. If you were earning more as a sales monkey, why did you quit and do something else? Was it to take a drop in salary in order to do a job you thought you would find more satisfying?

MS Certs and NVQs aren't really worth much on their own, you need to work hard and get noticed (or be seen to be working hard), get some experience (just length of time will do) and either move around internally every 12-18 months or so, or if you can't do that you need to move to another company.

Its not relevent because its a degree, a degree is a degree is a degree! You said yourself he has to take a crap job earning crap money and get experiance but i'm saying he cant because he cant afford to work for £14k a year

I quit sales to get into IT obviously :confused:

Again you answered your own question, I thought it would be a better career but how wrong was I!

I love how you say move around and get noticed etc when getting another job is an impossibilty, I have applied for so many jobs now that I am sick to death of application forms, some of them are unbelievable and take forever to fill in, when you have done as many as I have it gets boring!

Dj_Jestar · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:32

Get an apprenticeship, or post-grad scheme if you go to uni.

Become a Software Developer and then laugh at the pitiful fools who chose to be sys admins, as you have endless interesting challenges to face day after day, whilst they just sit there resetting people's passwords all day long

/smug

jamief · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:36

Go to University, study a computing related degree and take it from there

Mr^B · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:44

Relentless81 said:
Its not relevent because its a degree, a degree is a degree is a degree! You said yourself he has to take a crap job earning crap money and get experiance but i'm saying he cant because he cant afford to work for £14k a year

Unfortunately, one degree is not the same as another degree.

Ask WHY he has to take a crap job, rather than get onto a proper graduate scheme. The answer will be that the competition for those places is VERY fierce, as a 1st from Oxbridge in anything at all will trump a 2nd class degree from most other places. That's the relevance here. If the degree wasn't good enough to end up on a proper scheme, than he has my sympathies.

Relentless81 said:
I quit sales to get into IT obviously Again you answered your own question, I thought it would be a better career but how wrong was I!

I love how you say move around and get noticed etc when getting another job is an impossibilty, I have applied for so many jobs now that I am sick to death of application forms, some of them are unbelievable and take forever to fill in, when you have done as many as I have it gets boring!

I've never filled in an application form for a job - I just use recruitment agencies. I get 50+ emails a week from agents both looking to hire and looking to place people, covering all aspects of IT. The market is extremely active at the moment.

Have you had your CV and covering letter checked/reviewed by anyone? If you have the experience you say you have, and the skills, there's no reason at all for you not to at least get a first interview. Unless you have set unreasonably high salary expectations, or are severely geographically restricted - or your CV is putting prospective employers off somehow...

Relentless81 · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:52

I dont know what recruitment agencies to use, everytime I send them my details I just seem to get emails from Nigeria offering me jobs and asking for money so I stopped using them.

No its not been reviewed but i've never had a problem prior to this and i've had a fair few jobs. I dont understand how you're saying its active, theres nothing on the jobsites in Manchester, I can go one to two weeks without anything worth applying for because the money is so low, I cant afford to take a pay hit. I'd leave where I am for £17k and no less and with good prospects and to be honest with my experiance that should be fine, I just want out of this dead end job as you can tell I am very bitter about the whole the thing but I have reason to be!

I started in IT at 25 at this same place to a load of false promises, took a massive pay hit, did my training and studying and when I found out they werent going to increase my wages as planned I wanted to leave and i've trying to leave ever since with no joy what so ever and i've applied for over 50-60 jobs at least, its a living nightmare!

Mr^B · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:57

I assume you tried JobServe before?

JobServe: "systems administrator" + "manchester" = 186 permanent Jobs (248 total)

Most seem to be in the £25-40k range.

Most (if not all of them) advertised via agencies.

OK, so there'll be a few agencies putting out fake ads to harvest CVs - but hopefully most of them are genuine.

Ev0 · 6 Jul 2010 at 11:59

End of the day, these threads always end the same.

One group of people who feel like they are owed something as they are 'stuck' in a job they hate for rubbish money.

And another group of people who like their jobs and get decent money.

Relentless81 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:02

Of course I have, and Monster and TotalJobs and Jobsite and Thejobsmine and Job Centre Plus

186 jobs in Manchester, i'll bet if I apply for all 186 all I get back is more spam email

Its almost as if you and the others replying to me dont believe what I am saying which adds to the frustration

mrbios · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:08

Ev0 said:
End of the day, these threads always end the same.

One group of people who feel like they are owed something as they are 'stuck' in a job they hate for rubbish money.

And another group of people who like their jobs and get decent money.

I'm part of a third group, i like my job and get crap money

Ev0 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:14

mrbios said:
I'm part of a third group, i like my job and get crap money

lol as soon as I hit the post button I thought damn I've left a group out

You know what I mean though, generally the people who moan are the ones not willing to do anything to change things for themselves. I understand it's difficult, but can be done. If you don't like something, change!

I'll be forced to change jobs soon enough, however I'm waiting for the redundancy package to kick in then it's contract time again

Keep getting calls for some nice contracts now but not willing to leave for short 3/6 months deals just yet.

Mr^B · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:18

Relentless81 said:
Of course I have, and Monster and TotalJobs and Jobsite and Thejobsmine and Job Centre Plus

186 jobs in Manchester, i'll bet if I apply for all 186 all I get back is more spam email

Its almost as if you and the others replying to me dont believe what I am saying which adds to the frustration

It just doesn't match up to my experience, that's all - if you've applied for as many roles as you have without even a first interview, then you're doing something wrong somewhere...I'm just trying to help you figure out what it is.

mrbios · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:20

Ev0 said:
lol as soon as I hit the post button I thought damn I've left a group out

You know what I mean though, generally the people who moan are the ones not willing to do anything to change things for themselves. I understand it's difficult, but can be done. If you don't like something, change!

I'll be forced to change jobs soon enough, however I'm waiting for the redundancy package to kick in then it's contract time again

Keep getting calls for some nice contracts now but not willing to leave for short 3/6 months deals just yet.

Yea i know what you mean

I think we get one of these threads almost once a month, every time people recommend starting in a first line support role on a helpdesk, which every time i can't help but think it's absolutely crap advice when there are far better oppurtunities out there for new starters that will give them a wider range of experience and allow them to learn faster (and not make them want to kill themselves after 3 weeks on the job!)

Dj_Jestar · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:22

Relentless81 said:
Its not relevent because its a degree, a degree is a degree is a degree! You said yourself he has to take a crap job earning crap money and get experiance but i'm saying he cant because he cant afford to work for £14k a year

I quit sales to get into IT obviously Again you answered your own question, I thought it would be a better career but how wrong was I!

I love how you say move around and get noticed etc when getting another job is an impossibilty, I have applied for so many jobs now that I am sick to death of application forms, some of them are unbelievable and take forever to fill in, when you have done as many as I have it gets boring!

You need to notice what is right under your nose. You have applied for countless jobs, yet you still haven't had any success. So what do you think is to blame? All of those companies, who probably receive hundreds of applications for each job? Or the person applying for them? (Or, to be more exact, the method/approach in which the person is applying for them)

I've only ever needed to fill out one application form when applying for a job, and that was for Currys when I was sixteen. Since then, it's only ever been my CV sent to them, be it directly or via an agency.

You can't just sit there, fill out some application forms, see them all become fruitless, then just decree getting a new job an impossibility, you need to try something else. It is much, much easier to find a job in IT (particularly if you already are in IT) than many seem to think. IT is very much on the up at the moment, companies need IT and software to save money to pay back those debts. Recessions are good for the IT market.

Ev0 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:23

mrbios said:
Yea i know what you mean

I think we get one of these threads almost once a month, every time people recommend starting in a first line support role on a helpdesk, which every time i can't help but think it's absolutely crap advice when there are far better oppurtunities out there for new starters that will give them a wider range of experience and allow them to learn faster (and not make them want to kill themselves after 3 weeks on the job!)

Definitely. My first role was in a desktop support team, you did everything. 1st, 2nd line, implmentation work, project work, some telecoms, looked after the servers relating to the stuff that team ran. Just 1st line would be a nightmare, but do think everyone in support needs to do a little just for the experience...

Was a great first job, exposed me to many technologies and got me into my current role due to the stuff I learnt.

norris1337 · 6 Jul 2010 at 12:23

If you have a genuine passion and interest in IT then go for it son.

I was similar 4 years ago but now completely have changed my mind...should've done music or something creative. Saying that...i could've wanted a change if I went into music for example...I'll just never know.

Look at your options carefully and go for the one that seems best.

If you do decide to do IT...Try to get a job with training - But not an apprenticeship because the pay is low.

good luck sunshine