**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

sorry indie, i wont be able to play tonight, spending the day with the GF :)

kar said:
...It's really interesting to see how the promotion mechanic really affects your division match ups.
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havent been promoted/demoted myself yet, stuck in middling gold :p seems to fit though, roughly 1:1 on win/loss at the moment so i suppose it's a working system :D
 
Terran are a little bit OP, but not as bad as most people seem to think.
Marauders are easily countered imo.. For zerg its just Roach/Ling to hold off untill you can get some hdyra out, or Muta depending on tech.
for protoss it'll just be Stalker/Zea hold off untill Immo's.

Its more about your armys synergy than about what directly counters what.

I've only really just started playing as Terran in 1v1 since the phase 2 opened, before that i was Zerg and occasional Protoss. Marauders seem fine to me, its Ghosts and Tanks that are the biggest imbalance.
 
chaotic_uk said:
yea sorry about that was in a mood cause the paint on my case had reacted again , also every protoss player i had played yesterday spammed voidrays . i hate the things lol , they seem to have changed the ai serverside to make them harder ? . or is that just me ?
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It's no prob :)

Re Rays, they aren't any stronger. I just think at lower levels they are hard to deal with. If a 'toss sends in two void rays and gets a decent charge on a refinery, if you have less than 6 marines, you're going to lose straight up.

I've lost to this even as protoss, he gets 3 rays chargeed up on my assimilator and I have about 8 stalkers. By the time I get my stalkers into range the charged rays win. The important thing is to know your timings. ~ 7 minutes be on the watch out for inbound rays and engage them immediately (hot key all your marines so it's like 3-a in the direction of the ray).

Losing to rays at lower levels isn't unusual because because many players do not keep scouting and don't have sufficient marines to handle them when they arrive. Which is why protoss I guess do it so much as it's so straight forward.

At higher levels, gold and above, void rays aren't instawin and if mismanaged can actually be an instalose for the protoss player.

In our game, I was using that one ray to pin you into your base (you actually had enough forces to take it out if you engaged it). While you were pinned I was going to harass at the front with my small force (smaller than yours) and buy myself time to expand and tech up to cols and chargelots.

If I didn't have that void ray I wouldn't have a hope of breaking your front, and if you pushed me, you could have taken control of the map and pinned me in my base. So the early ray in my build serves the sole purpose of harass and force splitting and defending against early maurauder pressure.
 
Indie said:
Terran are a little bit OP, but not as bad as most people seem to think.
Marauders are easily countered imo.. For zerg its just Roach/Ling to hold off untill you can get some hdyra out, or Muta depending on tech.
for protoss it'll just be Stalker/Zea hold off untill Immo's.

Its more about your armys synergy than about what directly counters what.

I've only really just started playing as Terran in 1v1 since the phase 2 opened, before that i was Zerg and occasional Protoss. Marauders seem fine to me, its Ghosts and Tanks that are the biggest imbalance.
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Maurauders is high numbers are not counterable with pure gateway units, and that's the problem for most protoss players.

Higher tech costs a lot of gas, and leave you exposed for a short-while. As a protoss player you need an expansion quickly. Except you can't expand until you have something that can stop the maurauders. So that's the dilemma. And if you get your build wrong, (expecting maurauders and getting marines and ghosts instead) it's very tough to hold it off. And even if you do, the terran has map control and you don't have enough gas.

I actually hate the viking the most of all the terran units. But when I was playing diamond level players when the beta first returned on Saturday, I was getting annihlated by ghosts, even with superior forces.

Frankly, the nerfs I think are necessary are emp to become 200/200 research upgrade (it's so powerful and useful all game, it needs to be expensive), and vikings to get a range nerf to 7 (still outranging voids). That would fix tvt as well I think.
 
chaotic_uk said:
yea sorry about that was in a mood cause the paint on my case had reacted again , also every protoss player i had played yesterday spammed voidrays . i hate the things lol , they seem to have changed the ai serverside to make them harder ? . or is that just me ?
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What race are you playing with at the moment Chaotic? Maybe we can give you some anti-VR pointers.

Scouting is the main key, try to find the stargate, or robo bay. Early on Toss can not have both. Likewise if they have 3+ gateways chances are they will not have the money early on to support a mass of VRs or Phoenixes.

If you spot a Stargate or see nothing much happening in their base (i.e. 1 gateway a cybercore and not many other buildings) then get ready for Stargates (I'm yet to encounter robo-cheese)

As Terran
Build engineering bay, factory (if one is already not built), starport, armory, vikings, marines and have a thor or 2 around (every little helps)
Put a turret at either side of your mineral lines and one near your gas. (this is more to deter phoenix)

As Zerg
Build 3 queens per hatch, evolution chamber, 3 spore crawlers per hatch (this is to prevent phoenix) tech to lair and build hydras

As Toss
Build a forge, 1 cannon either side of your mineral line and one near gas (this is to prevent phoenix) and build stalkers + sentries

If you hold off the initial push and have "Units to spare" then run your units over to their base to hand out a "OMGWTFBBQPWNAGE"

Voidrays are massively expensive and slow to produce, chances are the Toss player will only have a few Zealots or cannons protecting his base. If they have not walled off. Run by whatever defenses they have and head straight to their mineral line to kill off their probes (or make them run away) hold their mineral line preventing them from getting an economy whilst killing off any further units they are making. build up your economy, expand and if you are still in their base with enough troops. Kill the nexus, then gateways then stargates

If VRs come in drips and drabs wtf
 
Yeah it is quite hard.. infact near impossible to hold off with bare gate units.

If he's massing pure maras from the start it should be scouted, thats when you decide to make the tech switch to VR or Immo. you should be able to hold off while you do this with Sentry/Stalker/Zea.

If it was that easy for Terran to win with Marauders, you'd see it spammed, I've not seen pure Marauders once in high level play.. not unless its a new phase 2 kinda tactic! lol

Dunno... i just feel that Marauders are ok as they are, maybe a very small fire rate decrease to balance it out? as their stats seem fine to me, and without them being as useful as they are, Terran wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I'd still like to see a Tank nerf and a ghost EMP nerf.


EDIT: In regards to VR/Pheonix, as Zerg, i prefer it when they do that, i feel its pretty much an instant win situation. Key priority as Zerg is to get the lair up ASAP if their not multi-gating, your drone scout can pick that up by just gliding around the base. Get an extra queen or two from what you normally would, and just micro them untill your Hydra's come, its really a lot easier than it sounds. Queen mico, save your ovies and win :)

As Terran i normally Tech vs protoss anyway, so i'll always have vikings ready to be build should i need them. but aim for Banshee harass into MM/Raven for the drones.. obviously not letting the banshees die! that should keep the Protoss contained enough for you to expand and get the extra gas needed.
 
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Indie said:
Yeah it is quite hard.. infact near impossible to hold off with bare gate units.

If he's massing pure maras from the start it should be scouted, thats when you decide to make the tech switch to VR or Immo. you should be able to hold off while you do this with Sentry/Stalker/Zea.

If it was that easy for Terran to win with Marauders, you'd see it spammed, I've not seen pure Marauders once in high level play.. not unless its a new phase 2 kinda tactic! lol

Dunno... i just feel that Marauders are ok as they are, maybe a very small fire rate decrease to balance it out? as their stats seem fine to me, and without them being as useful as they are, Terran wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I'd still like to see a Tank nerf and a ghost EMP nerf.


EDIT: In regards to VR/Pheonix, as Zerg, i prefer it when they do that, i feel its pretty much an instant win situation. Key priority as Zerg is to get the lair up ASAP if their not multi-gating, your drone scout can pick that up by just gliding around the base. Get an extra queen or two from what you normally would, and just micro them untill your Hydra's come, its really a lot easier than it sounds. Queen mico, save your ovies and win :)

As Terran i normally Tech vs protoss anyway, so i'll always have vikings ready to be build should i need them. but aim for Banshee harass into MM/Raven for the drones.. obviously not letting the banshees die! that should keep the Protoss contained enough for you to expand and get the extra gas needed.
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Agreed with Zerg, if you scout the VR action early its basically an auto win and if you don't but they only send in one VR then you can recover quickly enough to counter it.

I've only been caught out twice by a Stargate build. Once it was proxy stargates. The second time he went Pheonix instead of VRs and harassed me to death - It was after the game I thought... if I'd stuck down Spore crawlers I'd negated all of his attacks. He went Phoenix into DT into Zealot and basically ran me ragged.
 
I noticed some people weren't using hotkeys very well in that small tourney we did in phase 1. I'd recommend watching these vids Husky recently uploaded, really helpful stuff.


 
hmm probably untill a couple of days before release maybe? not sure!
Krono, will add you when i get back :)

Had a few more games last night as Terran, quite fun, very different to Zerg play style. really need to improve my macro though, its shockingly bad atm!
 
Been practicing against the AI...

My good god its got an APM of 2000-3000 during battles (average about 550-600 throughout the game). No joke it brings a ghost to the battle and it sounds like its firing a machine gun.

Needless to say I've not won yet... (playing against a Very hard Terran AI as a Zerg)
 
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I know this is cutting it a little late but I thought blizzard would have given me a key by now and they havn't. So does anyone have a spare friend key that I could please use? I expected there to be an open beta at least where I can test if my aging pentium dual core is up to the job of playing SC2, but it has stayed closed beta and I would rather see how this runs before my preorder arrives (so I have time to cancel if needed).
 
i just gave me spare account to a friend unfortunatly,
however i would have thought pentium dual core would be fine. its not a very demanding game at all really.... no Blizzard games are, their all about gameplay!

Will ask around to see if anybody else i know has a spare account you could use.
 
Indie said:
i just gave me spare account to a friend unfortunatly,
however i would have thought pentium dual core would be fine. its not a very demanding game at all really.... no Blizzard games are, their all about gameplay!

Will ask around to see if anybody else i know has a spare account you could use.
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Thanks.

The reason I thought my CPU may not be sufficient is that the min spec is a 2.6GHz single core, I have a 2GHz dual core. If the game is not multi threaded then my CPU simply may not be fast enough, I know it holds me back quite a bit in other games.
 
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