New road tax system

Man of Honour
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17 Oct 2002
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The road tax system in this country is utterly ridiculous. It is based on the principle that the less CO2 your car emits, the less it'll cost to tax. This is sound in theory if you beleive in global warming crap. For the purposes of this thread lets pretend global warming crap can be stopped by us all driving a Prius. This thread is not about that.

But the system is disproportionate. If you buy a tediously horrible Golf Bluemotion diesel and then do 45k a year in it trying to flog people carpets, with your foot hard to the floor in the outside lane of the Motorway getting 40mpg not 70mpg, you will pay £35 a year in road tax.

If you drive a BMW 320d ED, where BMW have become experts at getting very low CO2 figures, yet in reality you get 50mpg, you will pay £35 a year in road tax.

If you drive a 2007 Mercedes E500, which you purchased as a retirement gift and waft to the Golf club twice a week and take Dorris out on Sundays, covering 2000 miles a year, you will pay £445 a year in road tax.

This is a load of crap.

I propose a new system.

Calculate the average road tax bill in the UK. Lets assume simply for the case of argument that it is £200.

Take the average annual mileage as being 12,000 miles a year.

Calculate the average combined fuel economy figure of the UK fleet.

Then, increase fuel duty to such an extent that the average UK motorist driving an average car doing average mileage at the combined fuel consumption figure will see a yearly fuel bill increase equal to the average amount of annual vehicle excise duty.

Then scrap vehicle excise duty.

This will have the following effects:

a) The rep in his stupid Golf will now pay a fortune more tax as he hammers it to death up and down the Motorway. This is fair and just - he drives more, he emits more CO2, he should pay more.

b) The amount of tax you pay will now be directly proportional to how much CO2 you really emit - not the paper figure in the brochure, but the REAL figure, as CO2 emissions are roughly proportional to fuel usage. Therefore if you take the effort to drive more economically, you will pay less tax and emit less CO2. If you cant be arsed, you'll pay more tax and emit more CO2.

c) Mr Retired person who hardly uses his Mercedes wont pay much tax, which is fair and just, as he doesn't use much fuel or emit much CO2.

d) There will be no need for the massive administration costs of road tax nor any need to SORN a vehicle. Have a 1982 classic in the garage you rarely use? No worries, only pay tax when you use fuel.

I can infact see absolutely zero downside to this plan, if we assume that taxing CO2 is the way forward (Lets not argue against this assumption - this thread simply advocates a replacement for the current system based on the same assumptions).

Taxation as a form of command and control should shape consumer decisions and consumer behaviour. Currently, vehicle excise duty incorrectly shapes consumer decisions and has no effect on consumer behaviour.

My method will fix this.

Discuss.
 
[TW]Fox for Transport Minister.

I think it's fair to say that this is probably the only thing I'm ever likely to agree with you on.
 
Taxation should be done on the fuel, I agree.

Taxation based on how much 'Co2' your car produces is the biggest farce ever seen. Why the hell is it called road tax?

If it's 'Road Tax' then Mr Green in his Prius is wearing the road out as much as my little Peugeot 306 is.. yet he pays significantly less.
 
I will generally always be against this, as i drive a 300g/km+ car over around 25,000 miles per year.

So no, negative vote from me :p
 
How do you propose to deal with people who are exempt from paying RFL?

They will now pay RFL. In practice this is not a huge problem as almost all people who are RFL exempt do reasonably low mileage anyway so would not face huge additional cost. Most classic cars, for example, are RFL exempt yet do very low annual mileage anyway. Most people who are exempt for disability reasons again do not cover huge mileage.

This system wont benefit everyone - there will be some of us who will pay more tax, but there will be some of us who pay less, others who pay the same, and crucially it allows us to directly control how much RFL we pay.
 
How do you propose to deal with people who are exempt from paying RFL?

Point is really, nobody should be exempt as they are using the roads and causing pollution in some way or other are they not?

Only exempt cars would be 100% electric ones really, which works ok I guess.
 
Taxation based on how much 'Co2' your car produces is the biggest farce ever seen. Why the hell is it called road tax?

I agree but that is a massive seperate issue which we should discuss in another thread. This one is purely about changing the current system if we assume the premise on which it is based - that CO2 is based - is correct.
 
I agree. I've thought about this system before, read about other proposals and it is in reality win, win.

People prefer to spread the cost of something out over the year and not one lump every 6/12 months
Foreign lorries will pay 'road tax' when they fill up in this country
Less administration costs
 
I'm not sure I follow...
What about for people (i.e. me) who pay a lot less in road tax (think I renewed at £120 at the beginning of this year) and only do about 3-4000 miles a year. Surely the increase in fuel duty would be unfair? Or are you saying remove vehicle tax altogether?

Sorry I don't fully understand.
 
I'm not sure I follow...
What about for people (i.e. me) who pay a lot less in road tax (think I renewed at £120 at the beginning of this year) and only do about 3-4000 miles a year. Surely the increase in fuel duty would be unfair? Or are you saying remove vehicle tax altogether?

Sorry I don't fully understand.

Remove road tax altogether. No more stupid disks in the window.
 
Yes, road tax/ved in this proposal would indeed be abolished and the taxes in fuel would be increased. You'd possibly save as you do low miles.
 
Road tax is an anachronism these days, pointless, expensive to adminster and completely fails to achieve much. I fully agree it should be scrapped.

However, I do not agree with putting an additional levy on fuel, we already pay nearly 60p a litre in duty, of which only 11p is used in any way for transport. Fuel tax should be cut and ringfenced.
 
[TW]Fox;16946198 said:
I can infact see absolutely zero downside to this plan,

As sson as you start putting the price of fuel up, more people will want small cars that do 70mpg. The value of cars with larger engines will plummet. Great if you want one, not so good if you have one.
 
I'm not sure I follow...
What about for people (i.e. me) who pay a lot less in road tax (think I renewed at £120 at the beginning of this year) and only do about 3-4000 miles a year. Surely the increase in fuel duty would be unfair? Or are you saying remove vehicle tax altogether?

Sorry I don't fully understand.

He's saying remove Vehicle excise duty and increase the tax on fuel to compensate.

Something I agree with.
 
Do think Fox's proposal has legs, it will annoy a lot of people but it is by far the fairest way.

If the environment/total co2 outputs really concern the government I'd like to add a proposal of mine too that fits within the current system:

For each year a car is on the road, its tax reduces by say 5% down all the way to some small arbitrary amount, £10?

Upsides to this will be encouraging people to keep their car (we all know the stupid reasons people buy a 10k car to save £50 road tax), so they don't buy a new car all the time and increasing co2 outputs.

Cars should retain residuals a bit more.

Got that old track/weekend car? Well it's 15+ years old, not going to cost a lot for the minimal mileage it does!

Maybe those scroats who don't bother with road tax will find the £10 to tax their Vauxhall Senator.

Hopefully will prevent people purposely scrapping perfectly usable old cars (ok this is a long shot).

Will be some downsides to this, people might start keeping cars on the road that are well past their sell-by date because they cost barely anything to keep going.

Confusing how much 2004 car A and 2006 car B cost to tax when trying to compare them.

Well, I think it's an alright idea even if no one else does :p
 
As has been said though, most of these '70 mpgz' cars won't do that at all, because people will be driving the nuts off them with loads of weight in them, screwing the efficiency completely, so they'd deservedly pay more tax.
 
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