do you believe in heaven?

I believe we invented heaven as a escape for our minds. Some people need to be promised that there is more to life then what ever mundane life they have. I would guess it goes back to the time of Slaves , Were there must have been mass amounts of people thinking what is the point? So a perfect land of all your desires is given to you if you do as you should. And to stop people just committing suicide to skip there sorry life they said.. oh by the way you kill your self or you kill somewhere else your going to burn for all eternity so carry on pulling that rock.
 
sanaxe1 said:
I believe we invented heaven as a escape for our minds.
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That's a nice way to phrase it - I kind of agree.

I believe heaven and god is a very human thing to invent; typically arrogant, egotistical, greedy (for power) in some cases but mostly needy.

People can't bear the thought of not having a higher purpose on this life, rather than just being one out of several billion, all just getting on for a number of decades.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
That's a nice way to phrase it - I kind of agree.

I believe heaven and god is a very human thing to invent; typically arrogant, egotistical, greedy (for power) in some cases but mostly needy.

People can't bear the thought of not having a higher purpose on this life, rather than just being one out of several billion, all just getting on for a number of decades.
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I don't think believing in a creator or higher power is arrogant at all, quite the opposite. Humans have the tendency to think we're the be all and end all of life, and what we think we understand about the universe is the ultimate truth.

I do agree that the Heaven and Hell idea was potentially created as a tool for power over the masses, scare tactics to behave or be damned to the fiery pits of hell! The whole bearded chap sitting on a cloud smiting those who choose to sin due to the free will he created within them with is a little ridiculous also.

In terms of an omnipotent creator or being beyond our concious comprehension, I'm all for that. Not for the fact I'm scared of death or want meaning in my life, but the fact we're here talking about it now. Science says a few billion years ago every one of us here was just a part of a huge swirling cloud of gas in nothingness. Yet here we are debating what happens when we die... evolved stardust and clouds of gas contemplating its own existence.

Everyone has their own ideas to argue about, yet funnily enough every single person will find out sooner or later.

As silly as it sounds, after watching Inception recently and the popular idea that upon death loads of chemicals are released in your brain (which people say leads to feelings of euphoria and love etc) maybe all these chemicals speed up your brains activity to such a level that time seems to stop. In Inception, the deeper they went, the slower time seemed to pass, taking this idea to the next level could then, potentially it could make it appear as though time last forever and you could be stuck in a dream world of your making for eternity. And yes I am aware Inception was only a film and not based on scientific fact :)

At the end of the day life is just like... rolling down a hill with a big cliff at the end! Everyone is going to reach the end at some point, some think they'll fall off into nothingness, others believe they'll sprout wings and fly off into another life, but ultimately you may as well enjoy the view and ride while it lasts.
 
Theres so much we don't know, we cannot be really sure of anything.

As someone else said, I think it's possible to live again, but we wouldn't know about any previous existance. We managed to get created once, considering all the endless possiblities, I'm sure it's possible to exist again.

At the end of the day were all formed from stardust baby.
 
Holliday said:
I don't think believing in a creator or higher power is arrogant at all, quite the opposite. Humans have the tendency to think we're the be all and end all of life, and what we think we understand about the universe is the ultimate truth.
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I disagree. People invent the idea of there being a creator because implicitly that means they have a purpose on this earth, because they were created. In my narrow experience of this world, I find that the more religious a person, the more needy they are.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
I disagree. People invent the idea of there being a creator because implicitly that means they have a purpose on this earth, because they were created. In my narrow experience of this world, I find that the more religious a person, the more needy they are.
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I suppose it depends on if you think believing in a creator is the same as believing in a religion.

The way I see it, a religion is a set of beliefs that you are told to believe in and follow. You're told why you were created, who created you, how you should live and what will happen when you die. This in turn, as your say, attracts needy people, people who can't maybe can't cope with their life and need to turn to a higher power, a group of people who feel the same and believe the same. Funnily enough I think a lot of the support is then not from the idea of God but from the actual group of people who that person prays/goes to church with, a sense of belonging.

But believing in an omnipotent being of your own choice, and the idea that maybe you were created for whatever if any purpose, I don't believe makes you religious, nor needy. I'm pretty sure the whole basis of science is to discover where we ultimately come from and why, other than survival, there's not a lot else for humans to do!
 
Hatter The Mad said:
I disagree. People invent the idea of there being a creator because implicitly that means they have a purpose on this earth, because they were created. In my narrow experience of this world, I find that the more religious a person, the more needy they are.
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+1

Step 1: Look for a way to control the masses
Step 2: Start the rumour that if people don't do what you say, when they die they'll burn for all eternity, but if they are good, they get to meet some dude called 'God'
Step 3:Wait untill you have lots of people signed up
Step 4:?????
Step 5: Profit!!!

My experience of church when I was very young was lots of fun crawl spaces (pews) being abandoned by my mother (sunday school) and funny smelling smoke (incense)

God and his crew didnt sound so bad, whats not to like?

Mother became disabled after being christian (C of E) all her life. Little Lawz wonders, if God is so awesome, why'd he let that happen. Little Lawz realises God does nothing because God isnt there. Cue lightbulb above head moment.

Religion is burying your head in the sand because you can't face the facts of life, and explaining all the issues in the world away by saying its 'Gods' will.

Screw. That. ****.

You get modern day religious people laughing at people who follow 'cults' about someone who says he is a prophet and that the world is going to end unless people follow him.
Though I bet if you went back further enough you'd get people laughing at the people following some carpenter from Nazareth who said he was the son of the Hebrew's God.

I also think its funny how Jesus is portrayed as being white even though he was probably black, you know, being from the middle east and all.
 
No.




Perhaps I should elaborate. I used to be atheist but in recent years I am agnostic. I don't believe in man made religion. But I have had some unusual experiences which I have so far not been able to explain. These were experienced at the same time by my brother and we both thought we'd look back and dismiss them. We haven;t been able to dismiss them many years later.



But heaven.. no :)
 
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I believe that when we die; we fall into a permanent dream, a lucid dream one that we can control for eternity without even knowing it is just a dream: that would be heaven to me.

Maybe we already died, maybe we never even existed, maybe we are all just an entity, dreaming up our own worlds, and then playing out a life in that setting. Maybe i created everything to be a part of my world or, someone created me to be a part of their world.

The truth will come to us after our dyeing hour, so we should finish this dream before we pass onto the next.

And no, i am not high.
 
no its all garbage. The main reason Christianity is so large is because of the threat of hell.
There should be 5 year jail sentences for people who say this stuff. Telling someone they will burn for eternity is like telling someone their children will all die tomorrow. It's horrific, barbaric and something that has no place in any century let alone this one.

There is absoloutely no proof of God, heaven or hell. There is truck loads of proof about how galaxies, the sun and the earth formed. Jesus was a clever man I'll give him that.

I long for the day when Christianity will be a joke of the past.
 
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Naff8000 said:
no its all garbage. The main reason Christianity is so large is because of the threat of hell.
There should be 5 year jail sentences for people who say this stuff. Telling someone they will burn for eternity is like telling someone their children will all die tomorrow. It's horrific, barbaric and something that has no place in any century let alone this one. There is absoloutely no proof of God, heaven or hell. Jesus was a clever man I'll give him that.

I long for the day when Christianity will be a joke of the past.
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People follow it because they fear the unknown; they feel comfort when they believe their dead loved ones rest in a place of eternal bliss, and those who were cruel burn in the mighty fires of hell.

There might be a powerful life form that watches over us, one that we do not have the technology to see, but I prefer not to follow Christianity just because someone told me about god. I have never seen any clear signs of god nor have i even been contacted by it.

This raises another question: if we do find the technology to detect "God", knowing the violent nature of the human race, would some crazy man attempt to find a way to kill it?
 
I'd love to believe that when I die I will go to a place where I experience what I'm experiencing now but everything is better. I don't though. I believe what makes *you* is a collection of neurons operating in a certain configuration and when these neurons don't get oxygen they die and you go with them. That depresses me.
 
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Nah, death is the end :( the idea of an amazing heaven for the good who follow a religion and the horrible hell for the non followers just doesn't wash with me! seems too much like a method to control the 'simple' folk in the old days, whereas now we are all more clued up you can see religion for the fake controlling system it really is.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
Did you come up with this yourself?
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Not really. Done quite a lot of research into earliest Christian origins and discovered that it's most probably what first and second century Christians (therefore probably Jesus and his disciples) believed. What gets taught in many churches now is very much a simplification. The Eastern Orthodox still officially believe something like what I mentioned though - not that I'm Orthodox or anything.
 
vonhelmet said:
The Bible says that those who are "incompatible" are cast into hell, where God is manifestly not. Besides, God can't have unholy people in his presence, so unwashed sinners wouldn't be able to get near him for him to punish them.
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Which Hell? I'd agree if you are talking Tartarus or Gehenna. Hares (or Sheol) are clearly something else. The KJV confused matters by translating them all as 'hell'.

This also depends whether we're talking the essence of God or the uncreated energy of God when we refer to presence.

I suppose the crux of my argument is that 'Hell' (the final one) is not a created place of punishment. It is an uncreated consequence of our sinful nature remaining. 'Heaven' (the final one) is a new creation or recreation.
 
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