Calling all legal eagles! (and police)

Greebo · 7 Sep 2010 at 13:47

What happens if you seize goods from another business which owes you money and refuses to pay you?

Situation is that a company owes my company money. They have admitted they haven't got any money and intend to go into liquidation shortly (they already have £20k of ccj's against them this week).

However, tomorrow they will be dropping back off the last of the unpaid goods they received. I know the vehicle they will be using is in the companies name and has no hire purchase/lease etc against it and is worth slighty more than they owe us.

What happens is we lock the gates and refuse to let the vehicle leave until they pay us what they owe us?

Can they ring the police and get them to force us to release the vehicle or would they take no notice and say it's a civil matter?

Or are we wasting our time and breaking the law and the police would release the vehicle and arrest us?

Burnsy2023 · 7 Sep 2010 at 13:52

This is an interesting one. Do you have a genuine belief that that you have a right in law to this van? If so, it wouldn't be theft.

On a more practical note, I would suggest that this would be a lot more hassle than it's worth. You really need to take them to court and get a warrant for seizure of property before you can do this. Your arrest isn't unlikely.

MeatLoaf · 7 Sep 2010 at 13:54

It would be more of a problem if by locking the gates it meant you were holding the driver against his will

Burnsy2023 · 7 Sep 2010 at 13:55

MeatLoaf said:
It would be more of a problem if by locking the gates it meant you were holding the driver against his will

Not if you allowed enough space for him to leave but not the van.

Von Smallhausen · 7 Sep 2010 at 13:56

Looking at your location, is the business in the Co Durham area ?

Vonhelmet · 7 Sep 2010 at 13:59

I'm pretty certain that would be theft, regardless of whatever debts you are owed.

edscdk · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:02

if you are on good enough terms for them to return goods maybe they willsell you the vehicle for £10 if you write off the dept?

Vonhelmet · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:06

edscdk said:
if you are on good enough terms for them to return goods maybe they willsell you the vehicle for £10 if you write off the dept?

Why would the business give up one of their few valuable assets? They've apparently got no intention of paying their liabilities, so they'll have even less intention of giving up their assets.

Trifid · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:09

I'd get a clamping company to do it. Release fee is £xxxx... Put signs up though.

Greebo · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:23

It's not the driver's fault and we intend to give him a lift back to their place. We're not that mean!

So no holding the driver hostage!

And yes, they will not just willingly give the vehicle over as it is one of their few assets.

Just wondered if the police would get involved or not.

Greebo · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:24

Von Smallhausen said:
Looking at your location, is the business in the Co Durham area ?

Does that make a difference or are you planning on attending?

Greebo · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:27

Burnsy2023 said:
This is an interesting one. Do you have a genuine belief that that you have a right in law to this van? If so, it wouldn't be theft.

On a more practical note, I would suggest that this would be a lot more hassle than it's worth. You really need to take them to court and get a warrant for seizure of property before you can do this. Your arrest isn't unlikely.

So there is a fair chance of being arrested then? Would it be as theft or obstruction or something? Their vehicle would have come onto our private property.

As for a court order we haven't got time. By the time we had one, they will be in liquidation so was of money/pointless.

Also they have started a new company already and all the staff are transferring over to it the next week doing exactly the same business as before.

Robbo · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:27

You should do it, and record it all so we can watch.

Von Smallhausen · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:27

Reason ask is that you would be best asking the force area it might concern.

If it is in Co Durham, ring 0345 6060365 and ask to be put through to Customer Service Desk. They will be in a better postition to advice you.

IIRC, there is a defence in law with regards to the Theft Act and monies owed etc but the specifics I can't remember tbh.

Burnsy2023 · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:28

Greebo said:
Just wondered if the police would get involved or not.

They would attend. What happens from then on depends on you and what the officer decide.

edscdk · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:28

Greebo said:
It's not the driver's fault and we intend to give him a lift back to their place. We're not that mean!

So no holding the driver hostage!

And yes, they will not just willingly give the vehicle over as it is one of their few assets.

Just wondered if the police would get involved or not.

im sure thats going to be theft... I'd get proper advice...

Burnsy2023 · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:29

Von Smallhausen said:
IIRC, there is a defence in law with regards to the Theft Act and monies owed etc but the specifics I can't remember tbh.

I should really write the password down to PNLD so I can access it at home.

Amnesia · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:32

even if you do get the van what can you do with it ?
it isn't in your name to sell, would it really be any different to someone leaving their car in your car park.

Greebo · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:34

Amnesia said:
even if you do get the van what can you do with it ?
it isn't in your name to sell, would it really be any different to someone leaving their car in your car park.

I know we can't sell it but on the basis that it's worth more than they owe us, perhaps persuade them to hand over all or some of what they owe in return for their vehicle?

Greebo · 7 Sep 2010 at 14:36

Von Smallhausen said:
Reason ask is that you would be best asking the force area it might concern.

If it is in Co Durham, ring 0345 6060365 and ask to be put through to Customer Service Desk. They will be in a better postition to advice you.

IIRC, there is a defence in law with regards to the Theft Act and monies owed etc but the specifics I can't remember tbh.

Thanks. I will see if I can get a definitetive on whether we are breaking any laws. If I was them I would be tempted to advise against it whatever the legal situation is as it would save them a shout tomorrow but we will see.