The pope. Popeing about.

Cosimo · 19 Sep 2010 at 19:29

JamesU2005 said:
I just find it funny how everyone is suddenly an atheist and hates anything remotely related to catholicism!

Nothing to do with all the "celebrity" endorsements for becoming an atheist I expect?

People seem to have some form of vendetta against cathloics, not based upon their own opinions but forming an argument based upon those of the likes of Richard Dawkins.

With some of the ignorance being displayed some of them probably think it's a good idea to burn Catholics at the stake.

JamesU2005 said:
Just let people believe what they want to believe.

Yup.

Castiel · 19 Sep 2010 at 19:30

JamesU2005 said:
I just find it funny how everyone is suddenly an atheist and hates anything remotely related to catholicism!

Nothing to do with all the "celebrity" endorsements for becoming an atheist I expect?

People seem to have some form of vendetta against cathloics, not based upon their own opinions but forming an argument based upon those of the likes of Richard Dawkins.

While it's frowned upon to belittle muslims or those of other faiths, it seems to be socially acceptable to oppress catholicism nowadays.

Just let people believe what they want to believe.

*Waits to be shouted down for not following the bandwagon...*

Indeed.

Castiel · 19 Sep 2010 at 19:37

Tefal said:
wait, Leviticus is allegorical?

Considering that Leviticus and Deuteronomy contradict each other it seems the obvious path. Anyway that is how my Wife and her Mother see it and they were taught this in School, my mother-in-law is still practising and she says that most of the bible is there to give guidance not to lay down law so shouldn't be taken too literally, especially the OT.

She doesn't agree with same sex marriage however, although she says that civil partnerships are fine. I don't quite understand the difference but she says they don't follow her beliefs so it doesn't matter as long as they don't do it in a catholic church. So I assume she couldn't care less what anyone gets up to if they are not a Catholic, and that the rules only apply if you are.

Morgoth · 19 Sep 2010 at 19:57

JamesU2005 said:
I just find it funny how everyone is suddenly an atheist and hates anything remotely related to catholicism!

Not at all, as an atheist I view all religions with equal disdain!

steve-h · 19 Sep 2010 at 20:23

Castiel said:
she says that most of the bible is there to give guidance not to lay down law so shouldn't be taken too literally, especially the OT.

Well nobody is arguing with that.

It's the part with the gods and magical beings we don't get. Which is the very thing that gives it its undeserved credibility to many folk.

Castiel said:
She doesn't agree with same sex marriage however

... which makes them have crazy ideas such as this

Castiel · 19 Sep 2010 at 20:33

steve-h said:
Well nobody is arguing with that.

It's the part with the gods and magical beings we don't get. Which is the very thing that gives it its undeserved credibility to many folk.

... which makes them have crazy ideas such as this

I don't agree with same sex marriage either. I'm not even religious.

steve-h · 19 Sep 2010 at 20:41

Castiel said:
I don't agree with same sex marriage either. I'm not even religious.

Same.

PS. WHITE POWER

Greenlizard0 · 19 Sep 2010 at 22:03

No idea where to put this but it's sort of related. As Stephen Fry once said "Religion: **** it".

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100913/twl-australia-lawyer-smokes-koran-bible-2802f3e.html

eddiemcgarrigle · 19 Sep 2010 at 22:42

Castiel said:
I attended a Catholic School and was raised as a Catholic.

Creation over Evolution. I was taught about Evolution.

That Condoms were useless. No, I was taught that condoms prevent STDs.

That Homosexuals are evil. No, I was taught that all people are equal.

That all other faiths are evil: Again, I was taught about all the other religions as well as Catholicism.

Was I taught that the biblical stories, i.e Genesis/Leviticus were factual. No I was not, it was clear that they were allegorical.

Quoted and changed to reflect my own upbringing.

RDM · 19 Sep 2010 at 22:54

JamesU2005 said:
While it's frowned upon to belittle muslims or those of other faiths, it seems to be socially acceptable to oppress catholicism nowadays.

We have been supressing and oppressing Catholics for donkeys years, part of being British

Blame Henry VIII

sigma · 20 Sep 2010 at 00:10

Castiel said:
I don't agree with same sex marriage either.

I'm rather surprised by this, may I ask why?

Castiel · 20 Sep 2010 at 00:18

sigma said:
I'm rather surprised by this, may I ask why?

Because I don't believe a married couple should have any more rights, especially regarding children and tax status than unmarried couples, hence not agreeing with same sex marriage as when civil partnerships were introduced it was one more nail in the equality of all unmarried couples. I also don't agree with forcing any belief or practice on those who do not agree with it, like religions, so same sex marriage in church is something I don't agree with as it is engineered to be divisive.

Also it highlighted another posters true motivations.

hurfdurf · 20 Sep 2010 at 00:24

Castiel said:
I asked my wife, who attended a Catholic School and was bought up a Catholic whether she was as Dawkins has suggested in the past taught;

Creation over Evolution. her answer was no, she was taught Evolution.

That Condoms were useless. Her answer was no, she was taught how to put them on using a fake penis.

That Homosexuals are evil. Her answer again was no, she was taught that all people are equal.

That all other faiths are evil: Again her answer was no, she was taught about all the other religions as well as Catholicism.

Was she taught that the biblical stories, i.e Genesis/Leviticus were factual. Her answer again was no she was not, it was clear that they were allegorical.

So it would seem that some of you are indeed full of the brown stuff.

I too believe that one persons experience trumps all empirical data.

sigma · 20 Sep 2010 at 00:34

Castiel said:
Because I don't believe a married couple should have any more rights, especially regarding children and tax status than unmarried couples, hence not agreeing with same sex marriage as when civil partnerships were introduced it was one more nail in the equality of all unmarried couples. I also don't agree with forcing any belief or practice on those who do not agree with it, like religions, so same sex marriage in church is something I don't agree with as it is engineered to be divisive.

Also it highlighted another posters true motivations.

So you don't believe in marriage either? Well not 'believe' as such.

Castiel · 20 Sep 2010 at 00:42

sigma said:
So you don't believe in marriage either? Well not 'believe' as such.

Not really, I feel that marriage is pointless, people feel the way they do about each other regardless of ceremony.

I don't care if gay people get married, I just don't think that others should be forced to compromise their beliefs to accommodate them.

I feel the same over gay adoption right in catholic orphanages. I have nothing against gay adoptions, but why force Catholics to accommodate them if they don't want to. There are plenty of adoption agencies that don't have such beliefs, use those ones.

sigma · 20 Sep 2010 at 00:45

Castiel said:
Not really, I feel that marriage is pointless, people feel the way they do about each other regardless of ceremony.

I don't care if gay people get married, I just don't think that others should be forced to compromise their beliefs to accommodate them.

I feel the same over gay adoption right in catholic orphanages. I have nothing against gay adoptions, but why force Catholics to accommodate them if they don't want to. There are plenty of adoption agencies that don't have such beliefs, use those ones.

Ah, I see your point now. Totally agree with it.

It's quite funny to see that people who think they need to get married.

Castiel · 20 Sep 2010 at 00:55

sigma said:
Ah, I see your point now. Totally agree with it.

It's quite funny to see that people who think they need to get married.

I am married, it was important to my wife and the legal and financial aspects were important because I was at war at the time.

My wife always says how much more important it was to her that I asked considering my views on marriage, but it doesn't change how much I love her married or not. It was purely a decision I made because it was important to her, not because of any need on my part.

My view is that unmarried couples should have equal rights under law including pension and child access rights etc.

sigma · 20 Sep 2010 at 01:06

Weird isn't it? How just because two people agree to something, they suddenly 'feel' different and are viewed differently by others.

People seem to want to get married too young too, perhaps it's a status thing? I guess that's why divorce rates are quite high.

Thread hijacked...

Castiel · 20 Sep 2010 at 07:17

sigma said:
Weird isn't it? How just because two people agree to something, they suddenly 'feel' different and are viewed differently by others.

People seem to want to get married too young too, perhaps it's a status thing? I guess that's why divorce rates are quite high.

Thread hijacked...

It seems that even in these supposedly enlightened times Marriage is socially acceptable but living together is still frowned upon.

It is this social unacceptability that I find ridiculous and wrong. The problem is that secular laws still perpetrate this even in totally secular countries such as France.

How many couples who have lived for years unmarried and happy, split in animosity within a few years of marriage? More than we should be comfortable with I'm sure.

This is just one example of what our society imposes unfairly on us IMO.

RDM · 20 Sep 2010 at 07:35

Castiel said:
Because I don't believe a married couple should have any more rights, especially regarding children and tax status than unmarried couples, hence not agreeing with same sex marriage as when civil partnerships were introduced it was one more nail in the equality of all unmarried couples.

I am going to disagree here. Due to marriage having some particular defined differences, mainly legal, financial and the next of kin thing. There should be some sort of legal demarkation in status. Especially as some people do not want those differences. With there being no concept of common law spouse in the UK and a simple, cheap method of marriage I think marriage has its place. The social acceptance or not of being married is long past with cohabiting couples not being seen as at all unusual.

Castiel said:
I also don't agree with forcing any belief or practice on those who do not agree with it, like religions, so same sex marriage in church is something I don't agree with as it is engineered to be divisive.

This was never going to be the case though. It was never about forcing churches to hold ceremonies they did not agree with. Even if Civil Unions had been called marriage there was still no legal requirement for a church to hold such a union. So we now have a situation, due to pressure primarily from religious bodies, of seperate, but not quite, equal.

Personally I feel they should have made all marriages civil and if you want to have a religious blessing that was entirely up to both you and your respective faiths.