The pope. Popeing about.

Those of you who favour the bible as your only source of facts to support your Christian beliefs should read some modern stuff, there's plenty of books about which show the bible has more holes that a sieve.

Christianity is based on the theory that Jesus had 'risen from the dead' because his body seemingly disappeared ,right ?

There's loads of theories here & loads of books questioning it

Try reading 'the Jesus files'


What if everything you have been told about the origins of Christianity is a lie?

What if a small group had always known the truth and had kept it hidden . .

What if there is evidence that Jesus Christ survived the crucifixion & secretly lived on to normal old age ?

Also try reading 'The dead sea scrolls deception'

Why did a small coterie of Catholic scholars established a 40 year stranglehold on access to the Dead Sea Scrolls & thus preventing access from other religions ?

& why have some apparently & conveniently disappeared ??

Would any of that shatter your beliefs if it could be shown as true?
No it wouldn't would it because you would probably say the books were written by atheist cranks who hadn't read the bible properly
 
RDM said:
Such as?
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- The number of different 'deities' currently and previously worshipped
- Why didn't 'god' create things more skillfully? E.g. humans get cancer
- Not everyone believes...an omnipotent god would be able to persuade more people
- Existence of evil and suffering

There are BS religious counter-arguments to all of those, which only serve to prove that religious people have their heads entirely buried in the sand. Please can a christian tell me why their god is the one true god, and not one of the other thousands invented over the ages?

But you ignored my point - evidence isn't required for everything to be called stupid. Have you ever taken the mick out of someone's outrageous claim that you know perfectly well is BS but have no evidence to prove it? Then you are no better than me.
 
Robbie G said:
- The number of different 'deities' currently and previously worshipped
- Why didn't 'god' create things more skillfully? E.g. humans get cancer
- Not everyone believes...an omnipotent god would be able to persuade more people
- Existence of evil and suffering

There are BS religious counter-arguments to all of those, which only serve to prove that religious people have their heads entirely buried in the sand. Please can a christian tell me why their god is the one true god, and not one of the other thousands invented over the ages?

But you ignored my point - evidence isn't required for everything to be called stupid. Have you ever taken the mick out of someone's outrageous claim that you know perfectly well is BS but have no evidence to prove it? Then you are no better than me.
Click to expand...

While I disagree with many of your other points, this question in particular has never been answered to my satisfaction.
 
AcidHell2 said:
What rubbish, there can be both.
Gods will and God if he chooses can give free will, all though it comes with the clauses that god then can't interfere as it would remove free will.
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Errr wut? The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. If something is God's will, then that those that are influenced by God's will no longer have free will.

It's one of the many glaring contradictions that cannot be reconciled.
 
Robbie G said:
There is far more evidence against the existence of a 'higher being' than there is for it.
.
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Name one piece of evidence against a deity.

You can;t as there is no evidence for or against a higher being as the yard stick(science) you use is not the correct tool for the job. It is unlikely to ever prove or disprove a deity as it was not designed for such purposes it is a predictive model.
 
Hellsmk2 said:
Errr wut? The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. If something is God's will, then that those that are influenced by God's will no longer have free will.

It's one of the many glaring contradictions that cannot be reconciled.
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rubbish, if Gods will is to give a set of creatures free will, then that is it. There is no problem with that. Other than it goes against your opinion.
 
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Robbie G said:
- The number of different 'deities' currently and previously worshipped
- Why didn't 'god' create things more skillfully? E.g. humans get cancer
- Not everyone believes...an omnipotent god would be able to persuade more people
- Existence of evil and suffering
Click to expand...

But none of those are evidence against the existence of a higher being. (The first could be used to suggest that such a being or beings does actually exist). They can be used to question the existence of the Christian God but even then there are not actual evidence against such a diety. But evidence against the existence of a higher being they are certianly not.

Robbie G said:
There are BS religious counter-arguments to all of those, which only serve to prove that religious people have their heads entirely buried in the sand. Please can a christian tell me why their god is the one true god, and not one of the other thousands invented over the ages?
Click to expand...

The amusing thing is though that you also have your head buried in the sand. If you position was "There is no evidence of any sort of God that I can accept so I shall not worship one." then I have no real issue with that (it is the stance I hold myself). But to categorically say "There is evidence against the existence of a higher being." is just flat out wrong. Especially if you are using science as your tool.

Robbie G said:
But you ignored my point - evidence isn't required for everything to be called stupid. Have you ever taken the mick out of someone's outrageous claim that you know perfectly well is BS but have no evidence to prove it? Then you are no better than me.
Click to expand...

Generally people's outrageous claims are not meta-physical in nature... :D
 
Robbie G said:
snip.
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Ever thought that all religions are about the same god, just different civilisations ideas on the same God. Ever thought that God doesn't care what religion you follow as long as you have faith in him.

Free will let's us choose, which introduces sin. Hence all the evil and chaos.

None of that supports a no deity position. Just shows your total lack of research and thought.

You do not have to be religiuse or Christian to think like this or study theology. If you want to discus the finer parts, you have to assume a deity exists for the purposes of the discussion.
 
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RDM - well I think it is evidence against a higher being. My actual argument from the points i posted was, for example, that if there's only one higher being, why are there so many different beliefs? Probable answer from my point of view - there's no higher being.

I know that doesn't necessarily follow as to many people, the only explanation for the universe is a higher being because otherwise, who created the universe? However, extending that logic, who created the higher being? Paul Daniels?

The main problem I actually have is that people devote their lives to one line of thought when it's so incredibly unlikely that not only is there not a higher being of any kind, but that their kind is the actual 'one'.

The pro-religious crowd keep avoiding this question, because there is no sensible answer.

AcidHell2 said:
Ever thought that all religions are about the same god, just different civilisations ideas on the same God. Ever thought that God doesn't care what religion you follow as long as you have faith in him.

Free will let's us choose, which introduces sin. Hence all the evil and chaos.

None of that supports a no deity position. Just shows your total lack of research and thought.

You do not have to be religiuse or Christian to think like this or study theology. If you want to discus the finer parts, you have to assume a deity exists for the purposes of the discussion.
Click to expand...

Isn't that a bit convenient, that all the incredibly varied ideas relate to the same being? Sorry but whole the deity idea, has simply been invented to enable people to try and have an explanation for life. Sometimes, there is no reason.

Would you honestly respect my views if I decided that the subject of my worship was the flying spaghetti monster (lol)? Because you should pay equal attention and respect to that as any of the thousand other ridiculous notions that have been conjured up over the ages.

AcidHell2 said:
religiuse
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I'm sorry to pick up on your spelling, as it bears no relevance to the discussion, but why do you keep typing this? It makes me wonder why the hell (arf) you are lecturing me about a lack of research.
 
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Because I'm on my phone and it hasn't got a great spell checker and I am rubbish at spelling and grammar.

What had that got to do with your resaerch and you rubbish reasoning.

Why do you put so much faith in science that is only interested in a predictively accurate model. Not the true reason why things happen, as science isn't designed for this.

Why do you keep repeating the same questions that have been awnsered many times and that if you knew anything about religion would have more of a grasp.
 
steve-h said:
But Dawkins wasn't saying Christianity was the cause... he was saying the way they count Catholics(?) in this country... means Hitler would be a Christian.

He's saying (and already has said) religion had nothing to do with his crime, quite the opposite of what the pope was saying.
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Actually he was saying exactly the same thing, just from the opposite viewpoint.
 
Usher said:
Are you saying that it can be scientifically proven that the sea can be parted & roll back in two different directions as depicted in the bible ?

Is not the common belief now that the parting of the red sea is a translation error & that it actually says parting the 'sea of reeds' ?
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Read the thread and the links provided.
 
Robbie G said:
These stupid pigeonholes are next to useless. They're just made up to try and categorise people, as that's what human beings find easier to understand.

My position is that there's almost certainly no 'higher being' as we consider it, so it's whatever you call that.

I am not atheist if an atheist means that you are certain. Nobody can possibly be 100% certain.

I am not agnostic if that means you are 50 / 50. I am more like 0.000000001 / 99.999999999.
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Atheists have an absolute faith that there is no god, that is it. Theists have an absolute faith in some form of God, in whatever form they choose depending on their faith.

Agnostics like myself neither believe there is a God, neither do I dismiss the possibility there may be some form of Godhead, whether that be corporeal or not.

I can quite easily argue for religion, or against religion depending on the tone of the conversation.
 
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