Man imprisoned for not giving police password.

[Tefal]

This is one of the problems, you aren't understanding it correctly, he isn't being charged or assumed guilty of Child Porn, he's actually sent to jail for what is effectively obstructing the course of Justice.

But he;s not is he.

he's being sent to jail for whatever the specific charge is but under the headline "suspected Paedophile sent to jail for xxx".

We do not have anonymity for our accused as such we have to consider the effects of the pubic publications

It is not as simple as "X is sentenced to X" when it is reported as other wise.

Same as with the suspected drink driver, he isn't accused/sentenced for drink driving if he doesn't provide a sample, he's done for the separate crime of 'failing to provide a specimen'.

Of course his face isn't stuck in the papers as " hey this guy might be a paedophile".

It's funny you and others hold the UK Penal system in such contempt, because in the case of the big ol' world, it's actually one of the better ones

But it is not good enough, as proven by the fact it has failed to protect numerous child murders and paedophiles in the past from horrific assaults and has been sued for many thousands of pounds because of it's failures by those murders and paedophiles.

At the end of the day, any 'system' only has so much resource, but a huge expectation, it is inevitable that some wrongful convictions occur, society is not tolerant of that either, which is why it has to always been as low as possible, but it'll never be zero, that's untenable.

WE'e not taling about wrongful convictions though are we we're talking about deliberate "right" convictions designed to elicit a confession.

So which is it? There isn't some golden panacea that gives you zero wrongful convictions + low crime without some serious compromise..

Nothing of the sort, simply the acknowledgement the system has failed repeatedly to protect those in it's care and as such any sentence relating to an under-age sex crime should be treated with the most cautious approach possible.

We have proven we are unable to provide a pragmatic approach and as such until we offer anonymity to the accused we should not and morally cannot use the threat of physical, sexual and mental abuse as a method of coercion for a confession to any crime sexual or otherwise.

To do otherwise is to demean ourselves, our beliefs and our country.

 

[imb4tman]

With the amount of people who would be willing to hand over personal data that would convict them of another crime as long as it's not child porn makes me wonder whether it's a police tactic.

Police want someone for distributing pirated software, so accuse the defendant of having indecent images. Defendant is so scared of being labeled a paedo he happily admits to pirating software so that he can prove he doesn't have said images i.e. hand over his computer/hdd. Police get an easy conviction.

 

[Moley]

ok mark.

What crime would you confess to to avoid 16 weeks in jail under the tile "paedophile".

In prison you don't want to be associated with *anything* to do with sex crimes in any way shape or form. You would be *much* better off admitting to murder than paedophilia or rape for example, if you knew no matter what you were going to do time.

At least, that is the case if you want to be in general population. If you are in a prison like Bullingdon that has a wing just for vulnerable prisoners then no doubt life would be just grand...

 

[Tefal]

In prison you don't want to be associated with *anything* to do with sex crimes in any way shape or form. You would be *much* better off admitting to murder than paedophilia or rape for example, if you knew no matter what you were going to do time.

Exactly my point.


Until we offer anonymity and can guarantee protection laws such as this are barbaric and utterly undermine our stance as a civilized society.

 

[Demon]

We know he's not been imprisoned for being a pedo. The point is he's a SUSPECTED pedo which in the eyes of the media makes no difference because they will crucify him all the same. As has been said before the law may require you to proven guilty before they can treat you as one, the public require nothing of the sort, nor would the prison population.

It wouldn't matter if he was found innocent, he would have been suspected of it so clearly he is 1 the police just couldn't find the evidence.

I can't quite see what you are actually eluding to as a 'solution'.. more reflecting the inevitable fact of what occurs in modern society, remember it isn't the Police or the state that will crucify him, or potentially harm him in prison.

If society deem it grossly unacceptable, they'll have to pay for a better prison service.

And while it's sad that the guy may be crucified for the mere accusation, lets not forget, he had/has the power to vindicate himself, he chooses to exercise his 'rights' to withold the evidence, but he knows what the state of society is.. It's his choice at the end of the day..

 

[Xientie]

I also have a 50+ character password for my PC and even some smaller individual passwords attached to certain folders. If Police suddenly came to my door falsely acusing me of being a paedophile (or of a crime I know I didn't commit) and taking possession of my PC I wouldn't tell them the password. Now forgive me for being selfish, but even if they told me that it would aid their investigation and possibly even save a life. I still wouldn't reveal my password. Instead I would simply state that I had forgotten it.

My computer contains private documents with details about my life, the life of my family and of our friends. Would I go to jail to protect their privacy and mine, stand up for my rights and risk being labeled a paedophile for the rest of m life? Yes I would. A man who sacrifices a little freedom for a little security deserves nether and will loose both. I would stand by my freedoms and my liberties long before I bowed before the whims of a corrupt and oppresive legal system that would threaten to strip me of my rights.

Now it might just be the Scottish blood that flows through my viens, but I would die a 1000 times over before I gave up my freedom and I would back any man or woman from every race, creed and religion who thought likewise.

 

[Delvis]

Exactly my point.


Until we offer anonymity and can guarantee protection laws such as this are barbaric and utterly undermine our stance as a civilized society.

Although a good idea in the public sense...I could see problems still arising once you're actually in prison sadly.

 

[Tefal]

I can't quite see what you are actually eluding to as a 'solution'.. more reflecting the inevitable fact of what occurs in modern society, remember it isn't the Police or the state that will crucify him, or potentially harm him in prison.

If the police or the state can not or will not protect him in prison then they have not right to imprison him.

If society deem it grossly unacceptable, they'll have to pay for a better prison service.

Or anonymity for our prisoners.

And while it's sad that the guy may be crucified for the mere accusation, lets not forget, he had/has the power to vindicate himself, he chooses to exercise his 'rights' to withold the evidence, but he knows what the state of society is.. It's his choice at the end of the day..

And that's it isn't it, he was threatened with what you yourself have confirmed as brutal punishment to confess to any number of crimes we do not know of and currently have no evidence of.

He refused and as such has been punished to the worst sentence we can possibly devise.

He will be put under inadequate protection, confined with the worst we can produce and branded a paedophile during his confinement and his subsequent release.

 

[Tefal]

Although a good idea in the public sense...I could see problems still arising once you're actually in prison sadly.

Which is why until we can solve it it should not be done.

And if we cannot ever solve it, then we should not ever do it.

 

[Delvis]

He refused and as such has been punished to the worst sentence we can possibly devise.

He will be put under inadequate protection, confined with the worst we can produce and branded a paedophile during his confinement and his subsequent release.

But why has he been given that sentence when there is no 'evidence'...Why has the sentence or charge not been changed to withholding information for an investigation or something along those lines?

 

[Demon]

Exactly my point.


Until we offer anonymity and can guarantee protection laws such as this are barbaric and utterly undermine our stance as a civilized society.

You just need to wake up and smell the coffee, the world isn't perfect, but take solace that over the ages, the levels of barbaric behaviour are always diminishing.. we don't hang or flog people, inmates quality of life has improved immeasurably from the dark ages..

And looking at the world as a whole, we certainly don't stand out as being anything other then fairly reasonable...

And it's not that easy to just say some people/cases should be able to be hidden from the public, we live in a world where hiding things is difficult, and transparency is expected of the Police, it's all part of the checks/balances that society insists upon.. of course it isn't perfect, but it's improving, and evolving all the time.

 

[Delvis]

Which is why until we can solve it it should not be done.

And if we cannot ever solve it, then we should not ever do it.

Indeed...it's possible in the public eye sense definately...But sadly the actualy prison looking after the culprit 'needs' to know there crime, as such you get (can get I should say) corrupt prison wardens etc who will spill the info...inmates find out, inmate leaves, possibly spreads the word...

Not saying it happens, but it's possible.

 

[Demon]

But why has he been given that sentence when there is no 'evidence'...Why has the sentence or charge not been changed to withholding information for an investigation or something along those lines?

It has, he hasn't been sentenced or charge with Child Porn, he's simply been charged with failing to hand over the 'key' to the evidence, it's the fact the media have access to the fact he was being investigated for child porn that seems to spark the uproar..

 

[Delvis]

It has, he hasn't been sentenced or charge with Child Porn, he's simply been charged with failing to hand over the 'key' to the evidence, it's the fact the media have access to the fact he was being investigated for child porn that seems to spark the uproar..

Fair do's, my apologies

I hate media, they should be done for 'false advertsing' half the time

 

[Xientie]

It has, he hasn't been sentenced or charge with Child Porn, he's simply been charged with failing to hand over the 'key' to the evidence, it's the fact the media have access to the fact he was being investigated for child porn that seems to spark the uproar..

Overly dramatic and stunning headlines taking out of context tend to sell better than that old mundane truth.

 

[Evilsod]

I can't quite see what you are actually eluding to as a 'solution'.. more reflecting the inevitable fact of what occurs in modern society, remember it isn't the Police or the state that will crucify him, or potentially harm him in prison.

If society deem it grossly unacceptable, they'll have to pay for a better prison service.

And while it's sad that the guy may be crucified for the mere accusation, lets not forget, he had/has the power to vindicate himself, he chooses to exercise his 'rights' to withold the evidence, but he knows what the state of society is.. It's his choice at the end of the day..

Well yes the penal system would need to be upgraded which probably aint gonna happen. But the media gets free reign near enough over printing stuff that can very easily be classified as highly sensitive. As tefal said there needs to be more protection for the people involved in this type of crime. Yes yes its heinous but so is murder. Hell i believe there was a report yesterday in Finland that 5 people have been arrested suspected of dismembering some guy in his home... but the chances are they would get better treatment than a suspected child molesterer even if he was found innocent. There just isn't anything taking into account the public reaction to crimes which in these cases is far more severe than the punishment the law gives.

 

[Tefal]

But why has he been given that sentence when there is no 'evidence'...Why has the sentence or charge not been changed to withholding information for an investigation or something along those lines?

Because we do not grant criminals anonymity.

his name has been revealed as has his "suspected" crime.

He is now and forever will be "the paedophile who only got 16 weeks."

In other words an under punished paedophile the worst position you can be in.

 

[Demon]

Well yes the penal system would need to be upgraded which probably aint gonna happen. But the media gets free reign near enough over printing stuff that can very easily be classified as highly sensitive. As tefal said there needs to be more protection for the people involved in this type of crime. Yes yes its heinous but so is murder. Hell i believe there was a report yesterday in Finland that 5 people have been arrested suspected of dismembering some guy in his home... but the chances are they would get better treatment than a suspected child molesterer even if he was found innocent. There just isn't anything taking into account the public reaction to crimes which in these cases is far more severe than the punishment the law gives.

Because we do not grant criminals anonymity.

his name has been revealed as has his "suspected" crime.

He is now and forever will be "the paedophile who only got 16 weeks."

In other words an under punished paedophile the worst position you can be in.

While I agree in this case, more protection from the public awareness of the accusation would be better, you have to ask why the public have access to this information in the first place.. That is all..

It's fine getting on your high horse with notions that it's disgusting he can't hide the accusation, which all sounds good, until you then follow through the implications of the police effectively hiding information from the public, which never goes down well, and clearly has already led to the level of transparency we have today.

 

[Tefal]

You just need to wake up and smell the coffee, the world isn't perfect, but take solace that over the ages, the levels of barbaric behaviour are always diminishing.. we don't hang or flog people, inmates quality of life has improved immeasurably from the dark ages..

Yes instead they are simply burnt, mutilated and raped.

and the sue you the tax payer for compensation.

And looking at the world as a whole, we certainly don't stand out as being anything other then fairly reasonable...

We've just sent a man "guilty" of not giving a password to prison under the tile of paedophile" if he comes out unharmed it will be a miracle.


That is not reasonable not by any civilized humans standards.

If you cannon insure a mans protection you should not force him into such a situation.

And it's not that easy to just say some people/cases should be able to be hidden from the public, we live in a world where hiding things is difficult, and transparency is expected of the Police, it's all part of the checks/balances that society insists upon.. of course it isn't perfect, but it's improving, and evolving all the time.

No hiding things is easy.

If the correct protection is given the DM/telegraph or even the financial times could be crushed into dust for even daring to publish a hint of who the person may be or the crime they committed.

We choose not to give that protection, and as such we are responsible.

Until we give them this protection it is sickening we use it as a threat to coerce their confessions.

 

[Vonhelmet]

If we weren't told why the police wanted access to his PC, then people would want to know why. Even if they weren't told, it would be trivial to infer it.