E46 radiator popped

[Biohazard]

That is one belt/manufacturer. Mines are fine for a good 60+. VAG aren't exactly quality components either.

You get on plannet earth, I never said 'cambelt service'.

I said cambelt. Yes, a tenner.

Cambelts shouldn't be a big 'wad of cash', its an hour max.

Anyway, that's all I have to say. I'm not going to sit and argue about the cost economics, or crap VAG components and the worst possible example you can pull.

 

[Wicksta]

The way to look at it is how many threads have there been here with people asking if their engine is lunched because their cambelt has snapped. I've lost count.

 

[Biohazard]

The way to look at it is how many threads have there been here with people asking if their engine is lunched because their cambelt has snapped. I've lost count.

Way to look at it what?

What way was I looking at it?

Perhaps those people should service their vehicles more often, or not buy bins of **** that they have no idea about service history wise?

Other than that, genuine 'failures' of the belt component within lifespan are pretty rare indeed.

 

[[TW]Fox]

That is one belt/manufacturer. Mines are fine for a good 60+. VAG aren't exactly quality components either.

You get on plannet earth, I never said 'cambelt service'.

I said cambelt. Yes, a tenner.

Cambelts shouldn't be a big 'wad of cash', its an hour max.

Anyway, that's all I have to say. I'm not going to sit and argue about the cost economics, or crap VAG components and the worst possible example you can pull.

I picked VAG because it encompasses an enormous range of cars that most people are likely to buy - up to and including Audi's.

In the real world people dont replace 'a cambelt' on its own. It becomes another part of the service schedule, and makes otherwise reasonable services become very expensive services.

I do love the way you say a Cambelt is 'an hour max' as if its exactly the same job on every single car.

 

[Wicksta]

Perhaps those people should service their vehicles more often, or not buy bins of **** that they have no idea about?

We've even had people (Drexel?) have cambelts snap on the way home from buying a car. Do you expect people to change them before leaving the seller's house?

 

[Biohazard]

In the real world people dont replace 'a cambelt' on its own. It becomes another part of the service schedule, and makes otherwise reasonable services become very expensive services.

Lots and lots of people stick cars in for just the belt, or whatever is wrong at that time. I've done crap loads on the side myself.

The real world includes far more than brand new motoring as well.

I do love the way you say a Cambelt is 'an hour max' as if its exactly the same job on every single car.

You will get the odd one you have to lift out mainly its move the lump about, the rest are either dead easy or partially confined. I've changed chains in that time, belts are simple provided the job is problem free.

The job is the same, your changing the timing belt regardless of layout.

Mechanics 101? Anyway, of course how you set about that differs on cars. It still isn't rocket science, its a belt that wraps around some 'cogs'.

 

[Biohazard]

We've even had people (Drexel?) have cambelts snap on the way home from buying a car. Do you expect people to change them before leaving the seller's house?

Got the thread?

Was it sold with warranty?

Service history?

Belt particularly mentioned?

Had the belt expired, was it close too or did it have thousands of miles 'left on it'?

Are you trying to convince me that belts just snap left right and centre? Not reliable, not to be trusted?

 

[Wicksta]

Put the rolleyes away champ. I know many more people that have had problems with cambelts than chains, admittedly mainly due to lack of service. I'd prefer a chain to a belt personally, sorry if that offends you.

 

[Biohazard]

Put the rolleyes away champ. I know many more people that have had problems with cambelts than chains, admittedly mainly due to lack of service. I'd prefer a chain to a belt personally, sorry if that offends you.

BINGO!

And no, it doesn't offend me.

Using one example to draw some radge conclusion does.

There are lots of things that can effect the timing gear and damage a belt, likewise with a chain.

The belt has a major drawback, that it can snap, other than that... i preffer the benefits of it. It is also a bit easier to undo if you mess around with your engine a lot.

 

[Howard]

Chain = win

Belt + non-interference engine = partial win

Both apply to me

Need to bust out the Halfords Professional toolkit and change the belt at some point actually. When I can be arsed.

 

[bmh.01]

Just change a belt lol, you should never just replace a belt the idlers and tensioners should always be replaced as these wear just as much as the belt perishes. And on most modern engines its far far more complicated, i've lost count of the ammount of K4 and F4 series renault lumps i've seem with the timing miles off because just assume "its not rocket science" and try to change the belts without the proper locking tools. And the days of timing marks are starting to dwindle, manufacturer specific locking tools are become more and more common.

Also on after a cambelt kit is circa £100, then theres other things that are likely to need changing ie aux crank pulley bolts as these are often stretch bolts and thats usally another £5-10 for one of those as manufactures like to take the **** with things they know you can't get elsewhere.

Chains, although no infallable and will wear out eventually are a better long term solution than belts. Although short sighted design in the lubrication system for them can causing them to snap just as belts.

 

[Biohazard]

Just change a belt lol, you should never just replace a belt the idlers and tensioners should always be replaced as these wear just as much as the belt perishes. And on most modern engines its far far more complicated, i've lost count of the ammount of K4 and F4 series renault lumps i've seem with the timing miles off because just assume "its not rocket science" and try to change the belts without the proper locking tools. And the days of timing marks are starting to dwindle, manufacturer specific locking tools are become more and more common.

If the rest of it is fine, there is no need to change the rest of the timing components if you know the car.. I know why you are saying this, but it isn't always applicable. Sure, if someone asked me I'd say change the lot... but I've just swapped belts for people and the things still troop on. Pot luck. I know of one collapsed idler, but that wasn't me. And if it was, I wouldn't be bothered because that would be their choice to keep it on there.

I've done more renault F4/F7x and E7x type lumps than I care to remember, it really isn't rocket science, regardless of car.

Whats harder, changing the belt on one, or completely blue printing a F7x engine? Hmm I wonder.

Neither would I class them anywhere near modern engines whatever that is, its block design going back decades.

You shouldn't really need timing marks either to be honest. Not unless you really are dicking about!

Also on after a cambelt kit is circa £100, then theres other things that are likely to need changing ie aux crank pulley bolts as these are often stretch bolts and thats usally another £5-10 for one of those as manufactures like to take the **** with things they know you can't get elsewhere.

Depending obviously on the model, you are cheaper picking the belt and tensioners separately. I have been the last few times.

Lots of cars have little idiosynracies; did you want me to list every single one?

 

[Joshy]

I thought the general consensus was that actual belt failure is pretty uncommon, but the main issue was the failure of idlers/tensioners?

Personally I find the "I've got a chain, so I'm never, ever, ever going to having timing issues" a little bit short sighted. Guides wear, tensioners fail, etc, especially on high mileage engines.

 

[Biohazard]

I thought the general consensus was that actual belt failure is pretty uncommon, but the main issue was the failure of idlers/tensioners?

Personally I find the "I've got a chain, so I'm never, ever, ever going to having timing issues" a little bit short sighted. Guides wear, tensioners fail, etc, especially on high mileage engines.

Yup, pretty much. We are dealing with the BMW crew in here though

(joke, before anyone gets too upity)

 

[[TW]Fox]

I thought the general consensus was that actual belt failure is pretty uncommon, but the main issue was the failure of idlers/tensioners?

Personally I find the "I've got a chain, so I'm never, ever, ever going to having timing issues" a little bit short sighted. Guides wear, tensioners fail, etc, especially on high mileage engines.

The point is simple.

Fact: A cambelt adds to maintenance costs. Direct from VW's new value priced servicing regime:

Change cambelt (every 4 years)**
£299

Fact: A chain is not part of the service schedule there has practically zero maintenance costs to the average owner.

 

[iaind]

The point is simple.

Fact: A cambelt adds to maintenance costs. Direct from VW's new value priced servicing regime:


Fact: A chain is not part of the service schedule there has practically zero maintenance costs to the average owner.

Why would someone who's hobbies include slating people for worrying about fuel economy or tax on expensive cars be bothered be 300 quid every 4 years?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Why would someone who's hobbies include slating people for worrying about fuel economy or tax on expensive cars be bothered be 300 quid every 4 years?

Sorry can you just confirm, are you agreeing or disagreeing that cambelts introduce higher maintenance costs?

I'm good with stuff costing more in order to deliver real benefits.... but a cambelt doesn't. It's just something else to 'worry' about - the golden rule of always change a cambelt when you get a new car if you cant find proof its been done etc.

 

[Biohazard]

Chains are not impervious Fox, neither is the rest of the timing components.

Might be a little bit more expensive, but I'm not arguing down VAG servicing costs. I simply wouldn't pay a college drop out retard that much to do that to my car.

 

[iaind]

Sorry can you just confirm, are you agreeing or disagreeing that cambelts introduce higher maintenance costs?

I'm good with stuff costing more in order to deliver real benefits.... but a cambelt doesn't. It's just something else to 'worry' about - the golden rule of always change a cambelt when you get a new car if you cant find proof its been done etc.

It's not something to agree or disagree with, it's a fairly obvious fact.

I prefer chains too, but I think the cost argument is a bit daft given some of the arguments you've had

 

[[TW]Fox]

Not really, no. We are talking about cheap cars here - the sort of cars bought by people in order to save £120 a year on road tax, or because they will save a tenner a month on fuel.

Me personally? I'm not that bothered by the cost of a cambelt but neither am I buying diesel powered Polo's. I just don't see the benefit to the consumer. Why as a consumer is a cambelt anything other than less desireable than a chain? It has a higher chance of breaking, it introduces additional servicing cost - what does the cambelt on a Polo diesel do that the chain in a Corsa diesel doesnt, apart from cost its owner more money?