Nvidia Shenanigans again?

[Nemeses]

End of the day no matter what people wanna say on here this is a issue with AMD cards, thats why they now say they will improve there cards by release.

Ubi would not have delivered a product that ran inferior on one card on purpose.

Ubi do not need to accept AMD fix, AMD need to sort their fix and get it shipped on the cards when released.

The only fault here lays with AMD, no matter what UbI or nivida may have done.

 

[An Exception]

Of course i believe what i am typing, what is that supposed to mean?

So by saying i believe that cheating is wrong no matter what form it takes is a strange statement ?

Do you advocate cheating as long as it suits your needs ?

'optimising' your own drivers could be seen as just that, I personally see it as cheating.
What Nvidia is clearly doing is 'cheating' like AMD is doing, then paying software developers to assist them in cheating even more, and then resorting to use blackmail, when review sites don't want to go along with it.

Saying they is no right way to cheat, without acknowledging the differences in the cheating, is like saying there is no right way to break the law, and petty theft is no different than to murder.

 

[An Exception]

End of the day no matter what people wanna say on here this is a issue with AMD cards, thats why they now say they will improve there cards by release.

Ubi would not have delivered a product that ran inferior on one card on purpose.

They would if they wasn't a profitable company and if most of their income came from bribe money...

 

[orderoftheflame]

resorting to use blackmail, when review sites don't want to go along with it.

Sorry... Do you have a link or source proving this (that isn't semi-accurate...)?

I've tried googling "nvidia blackmail review sites" and the first result is you in this thread!

They would if they wasn't a profitable company and if most of their income came from bribe money...

You seriously need to pull your head out your rear at look at the big picture here mate. It's not bribing developers, they're offering to support them with funding and technical support. AMD should do the same.

 

[MoodyB]

It's slightly different though isn't it?
Ati were putting in sneaky driver optimisations that reduce quality to improve performance, on games that are generally used for benchmarking in order to inflate scores.

And Nvidia are totally innocent on this one themselves ? Really ?

Catalyst AI has been in ATi drivers for years, its not something new. If ATi found that lower precision in certain games increased the framerate with no loss in image quality, then why not ?

Extra performance for free with no IQ loss ? Yes please.

It's not a matter of whether or not Nvidia think it's a good idea.

True, because they can't seem to make their mind up on that one.

'Yes it is, no it isn't...., oh wait...'

The Iraqi Information Minister springs to mind.

That's not what's happening in the case of HAWX 2 here. AMD are performing worse, because the Nvidia cards are simply better at the tests

I'm not disputing whether ATi are better or worse than NVidia at tessellation.

Go GreenTeam on that one as they are atm.

Although I will say that considering just how many million polys/sec current cards can display, the excessively low poly background hills in the Hawx2 screens are done deliberately to advertise tessellation - i.e if tessellation didn't exist, you'd have something that resembled a real mountain horizon, not something that wouldn't look out of place in a PS1 title.

 

[An Exception]

Sorry... Do you have a link or source proving this (that isn't semi-accurate...)?

I've tried googling "nvidia blackmail review sites" and the first result is you in this thread!

You should be able to google it your self, I can personally think of about 3 or 4 big sites Nvidia has done it to.

You seriously need to pull your head out your rear at look at the big picture here mate. It's not bribing developers, they're offering to support them with funding and technical support. AMD should do the same.

No it's offering Dev's funding and technical support to sabotage the competition, sure it probably started out as genuine support, but that's not what it is anymore.
AMD should not do the same as fragmenting the PC gaming industry is not a good idea for PC gaming or consumers in the long term.

Sorry but your the one who needs to look at the big picture...

 

[Stanners]

'optimising' your own drivers could be seen as just that, I personally see it as cheating.
What Nvidia is clearly doing is 'cheating' like AMD is doing, then paying software developers to assist them in cheating even more, and then resorting to use blackmail, when review sites don't want to go along with it.

Saying they is no right way to cheat, without acknowledging the differences in the cheating, is like saying there is no right way to break the law, and petty theft is no different than to murder.

What are you talking about, read this carefully...

I do not believe cheating in any form is acceptable.

Do you get it now ?

 

[An Exception]

What are you talking about, read this carefully...

I do not believe cheating in any form is acceptable.

Do you get it now ?

Of course not, but the 'cheating' at driver level could be argued as 'optimising'.
However I'm will to concede it's cheating.

read this carefully...

Is cheating in your own drivers more or less acceptable, than the competition also doing the same as the above, and then bribing others to assist you further, and then blackmailing the one that don't want to roll over...

Do you get it now ?

 

[orderoftheflame]

You should be able to google it your self, I can personally think of about 3 or 4 big sites Nvidia has done it to.

Well... You're the one trying to prove that Nvidia blackmail people, so no. As I said, the first result of what to me should bring up an abundance of results if they existed leads directly to your comment in this thread!

If you can't prove that it happens, why keep repeating yourself with it?

No it's offering Dev's funding and technical support to sabotage the competition, sure it probably started out as genuine support, but that's not what it is anymore.
AMD should not do the same as fragmenting the PC gaming industry is not a good idea for PC gaming or consumers in the long term.

Sorry but your the one who needs to look at the big picture...

That's a genius plan. Sabotage the competition by making games run better on your own hardware! Oh wait...

Sounds like they're just trying to help developers get the most out of their games to me.

AMD should be easily able to offer the same to developers without fragmenting the industry, they just won't though. They've no one to blame but themselves

 

[An Exception]

^^^
Your in denial, and I doubt any amount of evidence would convince you, even if it's plainly obvious, so I'm going to leave it at that...

 

[RavenXXX2]

Yeah Nvidia put millions in to the PC game development industry every year, it was said that Nvida are keeping PC gaming alive with their proactive measures to support developers. AMD seem reluctant to invest anywhere near the amount Nvidia does and are reactive rather than proactive.

^^^
Your in denial, and I doubt any amount of evidence would convince you, even if it's plainly obvious, so I'm going to leave it at that...

You got no evidence so...

 

[orderoftheflame]

^^^
Your in denial, and I doubt any amount of evidence would convince you, even if it's plainly obvious, so I'm going to leave it at that...

What? Evidence would entirely convince me! But you haven't provided any.

 

[Jibber55]

Yeah Nvidia put millions in to the PC game development industry every year, it was said that Nvida are keeping PC gaming alive with their proactive measures to support developers. AMD seem reluctant to invest anywhere near the amount Nvidia does and are reactive rather than proactive.

So we should all thank god that Nvidia are here to protect the pc gaminig industry?
Loving it!

 

[An Exception]

What? Evidence would entirely convince me! But you haven't provided any.

Sorry my mistake, it's just you seemed so adamant and I found it hard to believe you hadn't heard of Nvidia's shenanigans before...

Here's the first piece, from Anandtech, but if you want more you will have to find the rest as I simply don't want to spend x amount the time finding sources.

"Early last week Charlie over at The Inquirer posted a story saying that a number of reviewers were cut out of the GeForce GTS 250 launch. We felt a bit hurt, by the time the story launched we weren't even asked to be briefed about the GTS 250. Cards had already gone out to other reviewers but we weren't on any lists. Oh, pout.

Magically, a couple of days after Charlie's article we got invited to a NVIDIA briefing and we had a GTS 250 to test. Perhaps NVIDIA was simply uncharacteristically late in briefing us about a new GPU launch. Perhaps NVIDIA was afraid we'd point out that it was nothing more than a 9800 GTX+ that ran a little cooler. Or perhaps we haven't been positive enough about CUDA and PhysX and NVIDIA was trying to punish us.

Who knows what went on at NVIDIA prior to the launch, we're here to review the card, but for what it's worth - thank you Charlie "

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2731/2

 

[Nemeses]

Think you guys are missing the point.it does not matter what Nivida have done, its that there is a problem with the new AMD card, regardless how you try dress it up, Nivida are only playing to their strengths same as any company would, there is a issue with the new 6 series cards and this technology.

 

[orderoftheflame]

Sorry my mistake, it's just you seemed so adamant and I found it hard to believe you hadn't heard of Nvidia's shenanigans before...

Here's the first piece, from Anandtech, but if you want more you will have to find the rest as I simply don't want to spend x amount the time finding sources.

"Early last week Charlie over at The Inquirer posted a story saying that a number of reviewers were cut out of the GeForce GTS 250 launch. We felt a bit hurt, by the time the story launched we weren't even asked to be briefed about the GTS 250. Cards had already gone out to other reviewers but we weren't on any lists. Oh, pout.

Magically, a couple of days after Charlie's article we got invited to a NVIDIA briefing and we had a GTS 250 to test. Perhaps NVIDIA was simply uncharacteristically late in briefing us about a new GPU launch. Perhaps NVIDIA was afraid we'd point out that it was nothing more than a 9800 GTX+ that ran a little cooler. Or perhaps we haven't been positive enough about CUDA and PhysX and NVIDIA was trying to punish us.

Who knows what went on at NVIDIA prior to the launch, we're here to review the card, but for what it's worth - thank you Charlie "

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2731/2

Waaaait a second.... Charlie Demerjian still counts as semi-accurate.

Sorry... Do you have a link or source proving this (that isn't semi-accurate...)?

Have you got a source that doesn't originate from a hatemongering idiot?

 

[An Exception]

Think you guys are missing the point.it does not matter what Nivida have done, its that there is a problem with the new AMD card, regardless how you try dress it up, Nivida are only playing to their strengths same as any company would, there is a issue with the new 6 series cards and this technology.

"AMD has demonstrated to Ubisoft tessellation performance improvements that benefit all GPUs, but the developer has chosen not to implement them in the preview benchmark. For that reason, we are working on a driver-based solution in time for the final release of the game that improves performance without sacrificing image quality."

Doesn't like I would describe it as an issue, simply a new technology and Ubi wants to Bork as it doesn't want to bite the hand that....

 

[An Exception]

Waaaait a second.... Charlie Demerjian still counts as semi-accurate.



Have you got a source that isn't written by a hatemongering idiot?

First of all, it's coming from Anandtech, second of all Charlie is a good source, like it or not, and lastly yes there are plenty of other sources, but I'm not going to spoon feed you, as you should be able to find the sources on your own, and also because what you believe is simply not that important to me, and I don't have the time to try to convince you any further.

 

[orderoftheflame]

First of all, it's coming from Anand, second of all Charlie is a good source like, like it or not, and lastly yes there are plenty of other sources, but I'm not going to spoon feed you, as you should be able to find the sources on your own, and because what you believe is simply not that important to me.

Good for you. I'm actually pretty bored of you now. So it works out fine for both of us.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Think you guys are missing the point.it does not matter what Nivida have done, its that there is a problem with the new AMD card, regardless how you try dress it up, Nivida are only playing to their strengths same as any company would, there is a issue with the new 6 series cards and this technology.

This, AMD said it was a problem with their new cards, not the 5*** cards therefor I believe it is AMD's responsibility to sort it and not force the developer to recode their game because AMD's new tessellation method does not work to well with Hawx 2.