Where do you stand with regards to the death penalty?

Like platypus, I'm not really sure where I stand on the death penalty.

Serial killers, rapists and serious re-offenders should be put to death. Why we support such evil and disgusting scum is well beyond my understanding.

It would make more room in prisons, cost less and more than likely bring about some fear to the scum bags that ruin lives.
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As for this, if this is your view, then you'd probably be quite happy having capital punishment brought back in.
 
w3bbo said:
I'd be willing to take my chances of wrongly being sentanced if it meant we got rid of some of the scum who are never going to be released into society again anyway.
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Really? You'd approve of the possibility of state murder (if someone is totally innocent)? Surely that's no better than what we are trying to protect against?
 
w3bbo said:
I'd be willing to take my chances of wrongly being sentanced if it meant we got rid of some of the scum who are never going to be released into society again anyway.
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Who are these lifers? Once they are dead and gone and nobody remembers them, what is to deter people from committing their same crime again? Where is the line between punishable by death and otherwise? How do you factor in the media-fuelled inconsistent sentencing phenomena? By what method do you propose we do the deed; would you do it? What does happen when you sentence an innocent victim to death. Is our governments track record good enough to not abuse this power?
 
Freefaller said:
Interestingly, Virginia in the US, has just bought some sodium thiopental from the UK pharmacies as they've run out of it for their executions. So they had delayed the executions. Each "injection" cost the US £220. So that's the cost of someone's life, for £220, we've just sold a drug to kill someone. It's a little cold and macarbe.
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It's an interesting thing and that it costs so little/much (depending on your standpoint) to end someones life in a "humane" way is somewhat shocking although as I know you're aware it's a long way from being the true cost of sentencing someone to death.

bloodiedathame said:
Go back and re-read what I wrote.
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Ok then, if you don't believe America or its society is comparable to ours (its legal system most closely matches our own so if we reintroduced the death penalty it is the most likely avenue we'd follow) then do you have another society to use as an example to prove the deterrent effect you believe exists?

Although as I've already said I don't believe "stands to reason that if you get put to death for it then you wouldn't commit the crime" line of arguing is not particularly valid for a few reasons but perhaps most simply that reason and logic don't necessarily enter into the committing of a crime ergo no deterrent effect is possible for them.
 
I'm more inclined to be against the death penalty than for it but I do alternate between the for and against argument from time to time I have to say.

David Bieber should have swung from a rope and it is also a travesty of justice that his whole life sentence was reduced to a 37 year tariff. I can't change my mind on that one.
 
bloodiedathame said:
Japan enforces the death penalty and has one of the lowest murder rates. Couldn't find 2000-2009 statistics but http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita helps shed some light.
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There are 23 countries that have a murder rate of 1 or less per 100,000 of the population. Out of these 23, 13 do not have a death penalty whilst 10 do.
Again, there isn't a link between the death penalty and deterrence.

You can pick individual circumstances and use these figures to prove a point, but when looking at the big picture (as I have done above) it is soon discovered that there isn't a link.
 
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bloodiedathame said:
Japan enforces the death penalty and has one of the lowest murder rates. Couldn't find 2000-2009 statistics but http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita helps shed some light.
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Ok and that leads to two immediate questions - 1) What makes Japan's culture/society more like that of the UK than that of the USA's i.e. why hold them up as a more likely example for our society to follow? 2) How do you prove causation rather than correllation?

You may also have noted that both Saudi Arabia and Qatar have a murder rate that is below Japan's (in fact adding them both together only sums up to approximately that of Japan) - should we consider those countries as ones with a justice system or society to aim towards?
 
I'm firmly against the death penalty. It has no place in a civilised country: I think it's a "step too far" in terms of punishment.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
I'm more inclined to be against the death penalty than for it but I do alternate between the for and against argument from time to time I have to say.

David Bieber should have swung from a rope and it is also a travesty of justice that his whole life sentence was reduced to a 37 year tariff. I can't change my mind on that one.
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I'm the same, I think for some serious crimes such as Biebers where there is no doubt as to the guilt then the death penalty would be a good thing.
 
Ahleckz - Can I see your source? Fair enough if you have shown that the death penalty isn't a deterrent in the samples used, I'm happy to accept that as a view for the bigger picture. That said, perhaps looking at an even bigger picture, the politics/religions/society/lifestyle in these countries do differ from the UK, which is important. I think the UK as a fairly 'neutral' country and for that reason there is less motive for people to murder (in relation to Iraq (religious), Russia (poverty), SA (racial), US (gangs)). I do admit I am stereotyping to a degree but that's not to say there isn't an element of truth in it.

semi-pro - 1) Similarities: rich heritage, licensed gun ownership, monarchy and government, judicial system based on Europe's, climate, economy, infrastructure, social welfare system, relatively small gang problems.

2) Impossible to prove really, I've highlighted in my response to Ahleckz some of the possible causes. Regarding correlation, it is the point I was trying to make with Ahleckz as well, that although the figures show the death penalty is not a deterrent, that could be purely correlation without factoring in cause.

I don't believe that S.Arabia or Qatar have justice or society we should specifically aim towards due to the fact that our lifestyles are vastly different.
 
I am firmly against the death penalty.

People say 'that child molester is sick, he should be hung'

er .. no .. think about the sentence ... in the 21st century we try and cure people that are sick. He should never be able to be a risk to society again of course, but we don't kill people that are mentally sick in the UK, even criminally. In short we're beyond that. To kill them would effectively be some kind of sad 'mob justice' based on people's fears and revenge.

The thing is (and here comes the really controversial bit) the vast number of paedophiles really wish they weren't havings these feelings about kids, rather were 'normal' - and therefore basically live horrible, haunted self-loathing lives because of their uncontrollable 'feelings' (and of course don't hurt anyone)..

Seriously, I worked on a council department monitoring the paedos .. something like 80% were on voluntary chemical castration as they HATED WITH AN UNHOLY PASSION the fact they were having the desires but were man enough to seek help. 99% of them including the ones not chemically castrated voluntarily reported into the council OFTEN DAILY to discuss with therapists how they are doing with restraining their desires, and how to proceed to try and lead a normal life hurting precisely no-one. After a while it was all very miserable because you realise about 95% of them actually just hate themselves 24/7 - and when you know a load of them you start seeing beyond the 'hang 'em high, kill 'em all' passions the 'paedo' tag evokes.

I don't want to be in a society that executes the mentally sick. Stop the threat from them to society entirely, then try and give them some kind of life. That makes us a better people.. a more understanding people. It's the society I want to live in.


(Ducks as the daily mail crowd get ready to post against me whilst foaming at the mouth ... :) )
 
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Ceryndrion said:
Just one question, some of those people who are against the death penalty, and yet advocate 'life means life' when it comes to prison sentances.

What is the real difference between committing a person to spending the rest of their natural life, in a prison cell, never to see the outside again. Or giving them the option of taking the 'easy way out'.
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Because if you get it wrong, then you can let them out and at least attempt to compensate them for the time you have taken from them. With the death penalty, if you get it wrong, the best you can do is apologise to the family of the person the state effectively murdered.

Ceryndrion said:
And the reason that in the states that the costs associated with the death penalty are so high, is because they spend years/decades in the appeal courts. If the whole system were not tied up in so much red tape, then it wouldn't be quite so expensive.
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Remove all those appeals and red tape (also known as safeguards...) and the chances of executing an innocent person goes up.
 
I think it should be an option for serial murderers and terrorists, of which the evidence is indisputable.

Anything else, I dont agree with. Eye for an eye definitely not, since it wouldn't work for things like manslaughter.
 
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