Is Diesel Inferior?
- Thread starter Spamalot
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Diesels are superior to petrols, in the right application.
That said, the days of the petrol engine seem to be numbered, if anything, were just behind the times in the UK.
Over here in Spain, just about every Spanish registered car seems to be a diesel, and by the looks of the old stuff thats about (Ford Orions, Opel Corsas etc) just about every one seems to be an oil burner.
They seem to also have a diesel variant of every model in the range, something I don´t recall back in the UK in the days of the Mk 4 Escort - I´m sure Ford of britain did not make an Escort Ghia Diesel nor a Sierra Ghia Diesel for example.
And then we have the likes of BMW - the 740d is the current new toy in BMW (UK´s) box, yet over here you will find e38 740d´s.....
Once upton a time, you could get petrol powered HGV´s, we may say the same thing of cars in years to come.
That said, the days of the petrol engine seem to be numbered, if anything, were just behind the times in the UK.
Over here in Spain, just about every Spanish registered car seems to be a diesel, and by the looks of the old stuff thats about (Ford Orions, Opel Corsas etc) just about every one seems to be an oil burner.
They seem to also have a diesel variant of every model in the range, something I don´t recall back in the UK in the days of the Mk 4 Escort - I´m sure Ford of britain did not make an Escort Ghia Diesel nor a Sierra Ghia Diesel for example.
And then we have the likes of BMW - the 740d is the current new toy in BMW (UK´s) box, yet over here you will find e38 740d´s.....
Once upton a time, you could get petrol powered HGV´s, we may say the same thing of cars in years to come.
[TW]Fox;17725529 said:
An E500 is not the petrol equivalent though, it's ~10k extra for a start. You could flip that argument and ask who would buy the Q7 3.0 petrol when you could have the 4.2 TDi?
I agree that a lot of people choose a diesel on assumptions, however it's not always the case. I didn't buy a diesel to save money or time spent on the forecourt and the car was more expensive than its petrol counterpart. I didn't factor in running cost savings because if there are any (probably the opposite in favour of the petrol), the differences are negligible. The fuel savings/ extra range are nice, but I bought the car because in my opinion, it was better suited for its chosen application of ticking over up the motorway with a slushbox and how it responds when prodded. The negative diesel aspects like noise and vibration are so muted on a car like this, it's a non-issue.
This isn't purchase justification, I'll always point out the negative aspects of anything I drive and I don't feel I need to convert anybody or prove that diesel is better, it's not. It's just a hopefully objective appraisal of when a diesel lump is done well, it stands alongside the petrol equivalent equally.
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Soldato
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a lot of the EU has lower tax on derv. The two largest car markets, US and China, simply do not accept diesels either.
Petrol will be more plentiful and Eu emissions will probably kill off most sub C sector cars after Sept 2015.
I bought a diesel this past summer. It's ok.
The reason for it in this thread are spot on. It boils down to cost. The majority of my annual mileage is long runs from Scotland to various parts of England. The increased range is superb!
My previous car (a GolfMk5 with the 1.4TSI engine) would manage 410 miles to a tank if I drove it like a saint on similar runs. Now I'm getting a projected 550 - 600 miles per tank and not having to stop for fuel. Perfect
I'll stick with my diesel for now as it suits my type of mileage. I do however much prefer a nice revvy petrol. Not driven enough cars to really comment though. Most powerful car was the Golf with 170bhp via FI. Other petrols have been 1.1 & 1.6 NA so not really worth shouting about.
The reason for it in this thread are spot on. It boils down to cost. The majority of my annual mileage is long runs from Scotland to various parts of England. The increased range is superb!
My previous car (a GolfMk5 with the 1.4TSI engine) would manage 410 miles to a tank if I drove it like a saint on similar runs. Now I'm getting a projected 550 - 600 miles per tank and not having to stop for fuel. Perfect
I'll stick with my diesel for now as it suits my type of mileage. I do however much prefer a nice revvy petrol. Not driven enough cars to really comment though. Most powerful car was the Golf with 170bhp via FI. Other petrols have been 1.1 & 1.6 NA so not really worth shouting about.
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Diesels are kind of false economy. You put up with the narrow power band, the clanky sound all for the sake of MPG. Yet, when they go wrong they can cost a huge amount of £££££ to put right. Also cost more to service and on average the price per litre of fuel is of course higher although sometimes the price comes down to the unleaded cost
My most economical car to date was a BMW 320 td, the only diesel I have owned and also most unreliable car I've owned. At 44k miles the turbo blew, would have cost £1200 to fix if it wasnt for the warranty. Next up three glowplugs went and so did the diesel pump, subsidised by the dealer (apparently) but was also £550 out of pocket. Before that I was knocking around in an old normally aspirated BMW M model(mid-1980's car drven in 2003-2004) and it was solid merchanically, did 60k miles in that easily.
Must admit though that for the next say 50k miles the 320 diesel did run flawlessly but the car left me stranded twice with those problems.
Didn't someone on this forum get a quote of £1800 for a mondeo diesel pump recenlty. That's shocking when fuel pumps probably cost £20 or so and a piece of cake to install
IMO you just can't be a good nomally aspirated petrol motor. Diesels have come a long way though.
Today I drive huge miles in a 3.2 litre petrol. Bags of torque, great cruiser, sounds great but poor MPG. Engine designed for high revs but doesn't have to be thrashed and is tried and tested as the same engine was fitted to other model of car for some 5-6 years so very reliable.
The problem with diesels these days is that they're built for performance and compromised a bit on the reliability side of things but no doubt this is improving. I woud however prefer a large displacement diesel than a small one with seemingly a lot of power.
My most economical car to date was a BMW 320 td, the only diesel I have owned and also most unreliable car I've owned. At 44k miles the turbo blew, would have cost £1200 to fix if it wasnt for the warranty. Next up three glowplugs went and so did the diesel pump, subsidised by the dealer (apparently) but was also £550 out of pocket. Before that I was knocking around in an old normally aspirated BMW M model(mid-1980's car drven in 2003-2004) and it was solid merchanically, did 60k miles in that easily.
Must admit though that for the next say 50k miles the 320 diesel did run flawlessly but the car left me stranded twice with those problems.
Didn't someone on this forum get a quote of £1800 for a mondeo diesel pump recenlty. That's shocking when fuel pumps probably cost £20 or so and a piece of cake to install
IMO you just can't be a good nomally aspirated petrol motor. Diesels have come a long way though.
Today I drive huge miles in a 3.2 litre petrol. Bags of torque, great cruiser, sounds great but poor MPG. Engine designed for high revs but doesn't have to be thrashed and is tried and tested as the same engine was fitted to other model of car for some 5-6 years so very reliable
.The problem with diesels these days is that they're built for performance and compromised a bit on the reliability side of things but no doubt this is improving. I woud however prefer a large displacement diesel than a small one with seemingly a lot of power.
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I was thinking that Diesel engines are a fair bit more complex than the petrol equivalent, so in a few years time no one will want to touch a sub 5kish diesel car as a new set of injectors and glow plugs could be worth more than half the cars value?
I dunno, I might be wrong, but aren't diesel engines very highly strung to get performance and efficiency out of them?
I dunno, I might be wrong, but aren't diesel engines very highly strung to get performance and efficiency out of them?
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[TW]Fox;17725538 said:
Insurance was £400 cheaper. Bearing in mind I bought second hand and got a good deal, it made sense. It's not like I paid extra for a new diesel over petrol. It was about cost, it was my first car and this car came up at a good price with cheaper insurance. Of course I would have preferred a 2.0 petrol or ST, but the insurance cost made me think twice.
But to get the gains out of modern petrol engines they to are highly strung with silly PSI injectors and fuel pumps. BMW have had a lot of trouble with HPFP and injectors on the new petrol engines. You just don't hear about it here because they sell more dervs in that sector.
I think with all these things its a number of factors and how each is weighted which determine what you buy. When I bought my 335D I tried the 335I, both were of a simliar spec, both autos and cost a simliar amount, but based on my requirements and how they drove I bought the 335D. They were both very good to drive but overall the D drove just a bit better and the power delivery was more to my liking.
Similarly with our other car, we tried petrol variants of them and preferred the diesel, these were 2.0 engined versions of them.
With the diesels they maybe noisier when stationary but as soon as you have any load on them they both become much quieter and the 335D has a very pleasant noise when you push it hard.
Having tried a S320 CDI recently that was near as damnit silent all the time.
Similarly with our other car, we tried petrol variants of them and preferred the diesel, these were 2.0 engined versions of them.
With the diesels they maybe noisier when stationary but as soon as you have any load on them they both become much quieter and the 335D has a very pleasant noise when you push it hard.
Having tried a S320 CDI recently that was near as damnit silent all the time.
I can see myself being on the diseasal team in the future too 
trying to delay it for as long as possible though and hopefully the day will never come. I would be tempted by a hybrid (if they drove good enough for me and ticked all the boxes) but obviously they're going to cost a fair bit so I doubt I could justify one.
Judging by your posts you're in the minority Fett.
trying to delay it for as long as possible though and hopefully the day will never come. I would be tempted by a hybrid (if they drove good enough for me and ticked all the boxes) but obviously they're going to cost a fair bit so I doubt I could justify one.Judging by your posts you're in the minority Fett.
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I cant understand how this was the case. It's not as if the 1.8 is a rocket, it has just 115bhp.
I've been think about this...
I guess a 300bhp diesel is as good as 300bhp petrol in the main part. It's up to the buyer to decide which power delivery they prefer and what's more important the sound of a petrol (I don't think anyone could say a diesel sound better) or a few extra MPG from the diesel. I guess in today perceived climate the MPG are winning for now.
So it comes down to cost I'd say.
I guess a 300bhp diesel is as good as 300bhp petrol in the main part. It's up to the buyer to decide which power delivery they prefer and what's more important the sound of a petrol (I don't think anyone could say a diesel sound better) or a few extra MPG from the diesel. I guess in today perceived climate the MPG are winning for now.
So it comes down to cost I'd say.
Assuming my allowance was the same across fuel types i would have certainly considered the 730d anyway regardless of budget. V8 petrol fuel consumption does get boring fairly quickly. I think i would certainly learn to appreciate the increased range as a starter.
Annoyingly for me, and where my fuel allowances do not make sense is that i get 21p if i drive a petrol, and just 14p if i drive a diesel. Do the maths on that one!
Again this comes back for Fox's original point, its all about the financials. But then isnt everything in life right down to the finer details in life?