Religion - I can understand someone believing in god/jesus, but why do they believe in the bible?

[Castiel]

An erroneous (an ultimately contradictory) way to look at it.

How do you explain then all the myriad of Pagan religions that isolated tribes people have or have had in the past?

Do you think that large organised religions such as Christianity and Islam just popped into existence with several billion believers?

 

[izzy eckerslike]

Do you ever worry that the way you phrase things completely robs your points of any validity? If not, you probably should.

I will return the same phrase to you and I think you need to read a little more about the races of mankind to see that Mongoloid is perfectly acceptable word. Perhaps you had better complain to Wikipedia as well

I'll leave the other points as open to debate, but it infuriates me that people insist on referring to these sorts of timeframes in the Bible. It doesn't give any measure of timescale.

I always like to point that out because I can't accept that the biblical scribes had even the faintest remotest idea as to the age of the world altho people like my sister and presumably BunnyKillBot will accept the 10,000 years biblical age because it's the words of god in their eyes. Therefore if being guided by god how come it's full of errors ?

 

[BunnyKillBot]

(I don't know a single religious person who has 'started' after growing up, every single one had religious parents, I think this probably holds true for 99.9% of religious people)

I'll be your .01% then.

I guess from the way you describe the bible you ardently believe...

Please, don't take any such presumption as to what I believe. Just because people group X rattle their cage and shout 'god hates gays' doesn't mean that's a popular trend amongst believers. Christianity as a religion is more like a political spectrum than an absolute set of, conservative, rules.

That you believe in creation and not evolution and therefore the book of Genesis to be accurate even though there's no remote way all mankind originated from Adam & Eve.

What i believe, is that all and any debate surrounding the origins of man-kind is superfluous, un-testable and completely irrelevant to our lives today. Quite simply, we will never know, at least not until a) we invent a time machine to observe human evolution in action or b) our alien overlords come down and tell us all it was one big joke or c) Jesus returns, the trumpets sound, and earth is made new without pain or suffering.

Given the unlikeness of seeing any of these proofs coming to light in our lifetime, I reserve the right to believe what ever i want to believe on the origins of man kind. How dare you say 'no way that one!' or 'absolutely this one!' when your understanding of the universe is as the size of a flea contemplating the size of our sun.

Science and DNA can verify this

Please excuse the following hypocrisy, but i guess from the way you describe science you believe science and religion to be mutually exclusive competing fields. You are wrong. Both can and do co-exist harmoniously. There is much that can be gained from observation and testing of theories; just look at this insane society that surrounds us replete with technology and engineering. But don't be so arrogant in your intellectualism as to think you have it 'all figured out'.

along with obvious things such as where did black/ yellow mongoloid people come from, if you say it's how man developed according to his surroundings then that's what we call evolution

If your going to do this, can you at least do it properly. Evolution, as a concept, in both the organic and in-organic worlds, is quite real, testable, proof-able and observable. What you have done here is the classic travesty of starting talking about origins (unobservable, un-testable) and switching track to evolution which is a totally different kettle of fish.

Oh and Out of Africa? http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/johanson.html

 

[neodude]

I'll be your .01% then.

0.1%

 

[BunnyKillBot]

people like my sister and presumably BunnyKillBot

I am, truly, sorry that such a tension between you and your sister exists. It is my belief that she only acts out of love, even if her actions are misguided enough to push you away.

If you believe in Christ, then the non-believers around you are like the blind man/women about to walk over a cliff. Hard edged reality tells you you can't save everyone, and yet there they are, about to fall to their doom. When this is somebody close to you, who you know, and love, and who you can see hurting and suffering, everything in your being calls to them. She loves you so much, she wants to save you, but in doing so, she has pushed you away and broken a sacred relationship of siblings. She hurts, as do you.

 

[BunnyKillBot]

0.1%

Ahaha thank you, i genuinely read it as 99.99%. I think that's what i hear in my head when driving at some absolutely-almost-positively-pretty-sure-definitely statistic.

 

[izzy eckerslike]

I am, truly, sorry that such a tension between you and your sister exists. It is my belief that she only acts out of love, even if her actions are misguided enough to push you away.

If you believe in Christ, then the non-believers around you are like the blind man/women about to walk over a cliff. Hard edged reality tells you you can't save everyone, and yet there they are, about to fall to their doom. When this is somebody close to you, who you know, and love, and who you can see hurting and suffering, everything in your being calls to them. She loves you so much, she wants to save you, but in doing so, she has pushed you away and broken a sacred relationship of siblings. She hurts, as do you.

I can see by your posts that your totally blinded by your faith and look at non believers with a sneering attitude much as my sister and her Christadelphian friends.

You have some very strange views indeed so how can you rant at me when you have no real answers to to the multitude of discrepancies in the bible but still believe there is a god .

You say you believe all and any debate surrounding the origins of man-kind is superfluous, un-testable and completely irrelevant (again - what strange views you very conveniently have ) but prefer to stick to the biblical version no doubt so I don't need to take presumptions on your beliefs as they are glaringly obvious.

And please, you don't know anything about my relationship with my sister so your - ' I am, truly, sorry that such a tension between you and your sister exists. It is my belief that she only acts out of love, even if her actions are misguided enough to push you away.'
is pure goody goody fantasy on your behalf which presumably makes you feel kind and helpful and a little a warm glow in your tummy and a little closer to Jesus no doubt.
Me being an atheist of course means I can't be kind and helpful to anyone can I

 

[Usher]

I am, truly, sorry that such a tension between you and your sister exists. It is my belief that she only acts out of love, even if her actions are misguided enough to push you away.

If you believe in Christ, then the non-believers around you are like the blind man/women about to walk over a cliff. Hard edged reality tells you you can't save everyone, and yet there they are, about to fall to their doom. When this is somebody close to you, who you know, and love, and who you can see hurting and suffering, everything in your being calls to them. She loves you so much, she wants to save you, but in doing so, she has pushed you away and broken a sacred relationship of siblings. She hurts, as do you.

Are you standing in a pulpit while you type ? because your posts are starting to sound like sermons

 

[BunnyKillBot]

Are you standing in a pulpit while you type ? because your posts are starting to sound like sermons

The world is a stage, real life is a pulpit. I am throwing nothing down your throat, i am not telling you what to believe, i am merely writing from the perspective of one who believes. If you refuse to take the perspective of a religious person, how can you ever find answer to the title of this thread? If you want to understand a bear, you become a bear. If you want to understand Islam, you become a Muslim. It is not a matter of actually being the 'thing' but seeing the world through its eyes. If you can not do that, we are lost.

I can see by your posts that your totally blinded by your faith and look at non believers with a sneering attitude much as my sister and her Christadelphian friends.

Sneering? What is sneering about loving somebody so much it causes you distress to see them suffering. Your sister BELIEVES in the afterlife. She can't begin to imagine heaven without you. Her motivation is not sneering, it is love.

You have some very strange views indeed so how can you rant at me when you have no real answers to to the multitude of discrepancies in the bible but still believe there is a god .

Why is it up to me to explain away discrepancies? If I asked you to explain the current lack of a higgs boson what right do i have to respond 'hah, your understanding of particle physics is fundementally flawed!'. Would you still believe in the Standard Model afterwards?

You say you believe all and any debate surrounding the origins of man-kind is superfluous, un-testable and completely irrelevant (again - what strange views you very conveniently have ) but prefer to stick to the biblical version no doubt so I don't need to take presumptions on your beliefs as they are glaringly obvious.

I have made no such statement, nor should I or would I. I don't care what you believe on origins, yet you insist on telling me. Who is the preacher?

And please, you don't know anything about my relationship with my sister so your ... is pure goody goody fantasy on your behalf which presumably makes you feel kind and helpful and a little a warm glow in your tummy and a little closer to Jesus no doubt.

If she is a Christian, then that is her motivation. It is a matter of perspective taking, like it, or lump it.

Me being an atheist of course means I can't be kind and helpful to anyone can I

Yes, you can. Many are. Most are. Being 'kind and helpful' has nothing to do with any of this.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I always like to point that out because I can't accept that the biblical scribes had even the faintest remotest idea as to the age of the world altho people like my sister and presumably BunnyKillBot will accept the 10,000 years biblical age because it's the words of god in their eyes. Therefore if being guided by god how come it's full of errors ?

Why would he accept the 10,000 years age? There's nothing in the Bible about timescales. Where would he get it from?

 

[Scrutinize]

I can see by your posts that your totally blinded by your faith and look at non believers with a sneering attitude much as my sister and her Christadelphian friends.

Christadelphians do have some odd views though compared to more mainstream baptistesq Christians.

In general (not aimed at your sister), if someone professes to be a Christian and are genuinely sneering / looking down on you (not just you think they are because you don't agree, don't like them) then I would really question whether they are infact a Christian.

Its one thing to give a profession of faith in Christ but another to have real possession of it.

 

[izzy eckerslike]

T



Sneering? What is sneering about loving somebody so much it causes you distress to see them suffering. Your sister BELIEVES in the afterlife. She can't begin to imagine heaven without you. Her motivation is not sneering, it is love.
You are eager to support and protect her beliefs but not mine it seems, why can't she accept my beliefs

A little lesson :Christadelphians don't believe in heaven

What Christadelphians Believe

The Christadelphians, "Brothers and Sisters in Christ", are a body of Bible believing people, who aim to live by faith in Jesus Christ, according to the teaching of his followers from the first century AD, finding their instruction in a wholly inspired Bible. Central to Christadelphian belief is that Christ will one day return to the Earth to establish the Kingdom of God and grant eternal life to his people - those who have tried to follow him and God .i.e. Christadelphians and they alone
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Why is it up to me to explain away discrepancies? (in the bible)

Maybe because you can't accept that it's so full of errors and therefore you are in denial

I have made no such statement, nor should I or would I. I don't care what you believe on origins, yet you insist on telling me. Who is the preacher?

You seen rather forgetful, look at your post 303



Yes, you can. Many are. Most are. Being 'kind and helpful' has nothing to do with any of this.

I won't even answer that last statement because it defies belief



And finally - Why will you not tell us your specific beliefs??? what are you afraid of ?

 

[izzy eckerslike]

Why would he accept the 10,000 years age? There's nothing in the Bible about timescales. Where would he get it from?

Christadelphians accept 8,000 years and my Brother in law who is more or less a minister will not accept Dinosaurs fossils as proof that they ever walked the Earth and that god put the bones there to 'test mans beliefs'

Maybe now you can see why I have great difficulty accepting anyone's religious beliefs after a lifetime of family arguments

 

[Vonhelmet]

I won't even answer that last statement because it defies belief

He's right, though. Good works won't get you into heaven, because any amount of sin is enough to taint the soul. The only thing that will get you into heaven is to acknowledge your sin and your need for Jesus' forgiveness.

Good works are, however, expected to follow from Christian faith and salvation.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Christadelphians accept 8,000 years and my Brother in law who is more or less a minister will not accept Dinosaurs fossils as proof that they ever walked the Earth and that god put the bones there to 'test mans beliefs'

Someone needs to resurrect Augustine. He'd have a few things to say about that sort of foolishness.

Maybe now you can see why I have great difficulty accepting anyone's religious beliefs after a lifetime of family arguments

Indeed. That sucks.

 

[izzy eckerslike]

Christadelphians do have some odd views though compared to more mainstream baptistesq Christians.

In general (not aimed at your sister), if someone professes to be a Christian and are genuinely sneering / looking down on you (not just you think they are because you don't agree, don't like them) then I would really question whether they are infact a Christian.

Its one thing to give a profession of faith in Christ but another to have real possession of it.

Strangely enough Christadelphians don't believe in heaven and therefore an afterlife like most Christians. They believe that when you die your spirit ( I never really grasped this bit) hangs in limbo so to speak until Jesus returns to raise them from the dead,

# Man is mortal, having no existence when dead. (Psalm 6:5, Isaiah 38:18, Acts 2:29,34)



When Jesus returns, he will raise his "sleeping" followers from death and grant immortality to the faithful who have tried to live by God's precepts. (1 Corinthians 15:20-22)

The followers being only Christadelphians so the rest of you have no chance of life after death so you'd better sign up with them asap

 

[izzy eckerslike]

He's right, though. Good works won't get you into heaven, because any amount of sin is enough to taint the soul. The only thing that will get you into heaven is to acknowledge your sin and your need for Jesus' forgiveness.

Good works are, however, expected to follow from Christian faith and salvation.

The point I was trying to make was that my sarcastic saying that' being an atheist I can't possibly be kind and helpful'
followed by his sanctimonious reply that 'many are' 'most are' giving the impression that being religious automatically makes you a better person whereas it's not likely that all atheists are, Can anyone see what I am getting at ?

 

[WalesOwl]

That the Earth is not even close to one million years old even though it's actually over 4 billion.

So if God created the earth he couldn't make it look like it was 4 billion years old? Like if a seed was made first or a tree? Well both. It was created as is with everything in balance, makes much more sense than macro evolution.

 

[boxman2000]

Hi there, the title says it all really, I've watched many documentaries over the years on religion and I've read articles etc, I'm an atheist myself which is probably obvious from the title of the thread.

But what I've always thought is, howcome religious people believe in the bible? because wasn't that wrote by man? its just a book isn't it, so howcome they read it and then follow it word for word, I know not all religious people do this, but millions do.
I've never seen anyone ask this question or seen religion challenged in this way in the documentaries I've watched with Richard Dawkins.

Very good question, although I have heard that one asked before.

As a Christian for 26 years, I (and millions of others around the world) believe the bible is the inspired Word of God, nothing less. The book(s) were penned by 40+ authors over many centuries which in the current form give us 66 books. Some originated as historical accounts, others letters to churches or even individuals, but all are entwined and common themes run through the book.

- In no place does the bible contradict itself, infact the books often support each other
- Kings, rulers, political figures, movements and cultural influence can be backed up by secular historians, e.g. Josephus
- Prophecies such as world rulers, punishment/blessing of nations, promised Messiah etc
- The bible noted the Earth was round, centuries before it was discovered. Medical advice, hygiene, basis for legal system and so on – all can be found in the scripture.
- Establishment of Israel as a nation in 1948, direct fulfilment of prophecy


I haven't read through all the replies but the whole topic of an athiest understanding the Christian’s faith in the bible just isn't going to work.

The religious person telling the athiest that you need faith to believe the bible is typically followed by the usual role of the eyes - understandable because believing the bible takes faith....... not that it can be disproven (no, really it can't) but that some things just require faith.

Parting of the Red Sea, dead people being raised to life, dudes ascending into heaven in chariots etc etc. People could be forgiven to think someone was smoking something..... but it purely is God’s way of showing Himself to mankind, the ultimate act of this was the death of Jesus Christ on the cross, for you and I, for our sins, so that we could repent and turn to Him.

I would encourage anyone to read the bible (may be best to start with the book of John) with an open mind but rather than just dismiss it.

Non-religious people (call them atheists, even though I know that isn’t the case) – reading a book by Richard Dawkins or watching his documentary, other documentaries on the subject trying to disprove the bible and events/characters referred to - of course they are going to as that is coming from an atheistic viewpoint.

In the same way, religious documentaries, bible and other books on the subject will more often than not give a religious viewpoint and dismiss the atheistic view.

Investigating both sides of an argument is just normal practice..... just incase someone has something wrong. Isn’t it better to form an opinion yourself than just take on someone else’s view? The consequences in dismissing the bible if it is right are there to be read..... surely investigating for yourself is a worthwhile exercise?

 

[Uriel]

Technically, historic Christian belief is that the current Heaven and Earth merge and there is a physical bodily resurrection into the new reality. Actually if you ask most mainstream Christians (Roman Catholic, Orthodox, most protestant, Anglican...) with significant theological training about the Afterlife, their answer isn't that different from the Christadelphian belief.

Christadelphians differ from mainstream Christians in that they don't believe in God as Trinity and their view of the Bible is very similar to how Muslims view the Qu'ran (i.e. practically literal dictated words of God).