Rioting in London?

Wow, that was a tough window!

On the whole 'cuts oh noes' issue, I don't see an actual reason to hate the government as some of these people seem to - the nation decided in a free and democratic election to vote in a party that promised cuts. As I see it, if people hat the cuts, they should be hating their fellow voters, not the government. And if they say oh well that election wasn't good enough, we want a proportional representation system or something, then they should campaign for that instead.

Although I don't agree with the cuts higher education, I do think increased fees could be a useful way of deterring people from doing worthless courses and getting drunk for 3 years. However, I'm not sure they will be if you have to earn over 20k and may never pay the fees back - limit should be set lower imo.

The things that annoy me are that the increases are coming in immediately, which will probably mean a lot of cancelled gap years, increasing demand for places this year hugely (I'm still trying to decide whether to ask to change my entry to 2011), and I could end up being 24k worse off if I take a gap year.

One other thing for me is that Scottish kids still go free - so If 3 years ago my family had moved to Scotland, I could have saved all that money - doesn't feel fair, considering some of my families taxes will be going towards funding Scottish people to go for free (yes yes, its devolved and all that rubbish, but it still feels unfair).
 
GreatAuk said:
Wow, that was a tough window!

On the whole 'cuts oh noes' issue, I don't see an actual reason to hate the government as some of these people seem to - the nation decided in a free and democratic election to vote in a party that promised cuts. As I see it, if people hat the cuts, they should be hating their fellow voters, not the government. And if they say oh well that election wasn't good enough, we want a proportional representation system or something, then they should campaign for that instead.
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None of the parties were fully truthful about the Cuts.

Half of the present incumbants said they wouldn't increase the fees, so there goes your 'free and democratic election'.

Maybe all of those students voted Lib Dem?

I certainly saw a lot of placards about numpty Clegg.
 
I honestly don't see what the problem is, firstly the taxpayer is still paying for people to go to university, it just so happens that now a bigger percentage will be paid by those that want to go to university not those who don't.

Those that want to go to university and want university to be accessible to everyone are paying for themselves and by proxy supporting the system which allows other people to go to university too. I cannot understand how an intelligent thinking person can have a problem with this system.

The rises are particularly aimed at improving the learning environment.

As always people should get some ****ing perspective.
 
GreatAuk said:
I don't see an actual reason to hate the government as some of these people seem to
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I imagine that some of those people (most likely the ones being violent) dont hate the government particularly, they just hate any figure of authority. Fight the Power ! Stick it to the Man ! Rebel ! and so forth and so on.
 
AtticusFinch said:
"Lower class" intelligent individuals can do the same courses and work hard to acheive in the same way anyone else from any background can. It makes no difference at all what "class" people come from.
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Not really. Not when rich Mummy and Daddy can pay your way through. The poorer cannot do this and therefore at a disadvantage.

Did you go to University yourself?
 
PapaLazaru said:
Not really. Not when rich Mummy and Daddy can pay your way through. The poorer cannot do this and therefore at a disadvantage.
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The ongoing costs tend to be accomodation, shopping and booze though, do they not (seeing as the loan covers the fees)? The friends I have at uni now who aren't getting help from family work to pay their way instead of expecting some sort of handout.
 
disgusting, of course only a minority have turned violent, the majority are innocent of nothing more than unrealistic ideals, really ought to realise that they have been hijacked by the nutters when they see socialist workers banners all over
 
i think its whats needed from time to time to remind the government people wont take crap , should be done more often in my opinion although the fire extinguisher off the roof was a bit silly
 
Skyfall said:
The rises are particularly aimed at improving the learning environment.
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No, they aren't. The rises are pretty much revenue neutral when the reduction in direct government spending on Universities is factored in. The only way it improves the learning environment is by reducing the numbers in a lecture hall so you can hear the guy out front more clearly.
 
I did

PapaLazaru said:
Not really. Not when rich Mummy and Daddy can pay your way through. The poorer cannot do this and therefore at a disadvantage.

Did you go to University yourself?
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I went to University in New Zealand. I paid more per year than is being proposed here (some in the form of a loan system similar to what is currently being proposed in England now) the balance I pad with money I earned from working. I grew up in what would be considered a "lower class" family in the UK.

I worked hard at my studies, and at jobs to offset the cost of studying. Many of those I went to Uni with had mummies and daddies that paid the fees for them. I did not have a single cent from my mother towards my fees (she had no money).

I made a decision that I wanted to study in the full knowledge there would be a significant cost. I completed a Bachelor of Arts in English Literature and Politics and a Bachelor of Law. I then went on to work full time, and completed a Master of Laws Degree also enroleld full-time.

I worked for a few years (at a modest salary at a small New Zealand firm) to pay the balance of the loan off (as I had been making provision whilst working all the way through University - as is the norm in New Zealand/Australia/Canada/USA).

Now I am a Partner of a Top-20 City law firm in London ten years after I finished my Masters Degree.

If you want to achieve you can, the relatively small cost of studying that is being proposed can be offset by working hard and recognising that nothing comes without sacrifice. To simply assert that "lower class" people somehow are disadvataged is a nonsense. The fact that someone has more than you to start with doesn't mean that somehow you should not strive for and achieve, success.
 
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I wouldnt be suprised if the "era of new politics" is about to come to an end. Its becoming quite clear that ANY promises made my any politician means absolutely nothing once they are voted in.

Clegg would do well to remember that once the student vote is mobilised it can be a powerful weapon. It does take a lot to get the lazy bums up and interested in something, but money will certainly do it.
 
marcus_667 said:
i think its whats needed from time to time to remind the government people wont take crap , should be done more often in my opinion although the fire extinguisher off the roof was a bit silly
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All it does is remind the government that people are idiots.

Stripes said:
No, they aren't. The rises are pretty much revenue neutral when the reduction in direct government spending on Universities is factored in. The only way it improves the learning environment is by reducing the numbers in a lecture hall so you can hear the guy out front more clearly.
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From what I read Universities that do not meet certain criteria for improving learning and access to learning will not be able to charge higher fees. Therefore motivating better learning opportunities for everyone.
 
ive been to uni and whilst i dont find the new 9k a year student fee very attractive it will give those who are going to uni to get drunk and party and not really gain anything (like the 2 years in 2 different courses i did before realising i was wasting my time and money as i didnt want a degree) cause to think twice.
what i cant stand is little ****s thinking they have the right to smash things up and set fire to property like they have been doing.
as well as the normal criminal charges i'd like to see any violent protestor from today kicked out of their respective uni / barred from making an application.
peacefull protest is everyones democratic right.
violence like this should be met with the harshest response the law can provide
 
G-MAN2004 said:
Just seen footage of the idiots kicking in windows, and the police were just standing around them watching? :confused:
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Probably cant move in because of health and safety laws with all that broken glass around, or worried that they cant apprehend the please star swearing out fully. Thanks. VS. due to fear of being charged with assault or something :)
 
G-MAN2004 said:
Just seen footage of the idiots kicking in windows, and the police were just standing around them watching? :confused:
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If the police think that going in to stop vandalism in such a situation would aggravate the crowd more and put people at physical risk, they'll stand back until riot control is established

Sensible decision imo
 
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