Yeah, there are loads of us in the industry without them, however imo you can tell the difference between those that do and a lot of those that don't
Career Decisions (IT Professionals please read!)
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Yeah, there are loads of us in the industry without them, however imo you can tell the difference between those that do and a lot of those that don't
Job Title/Description: IT Engineer or Helpdesk...
Typical day-to-day work: 1st / 2nd line support. Citrix support, Active directory, Exchange, BlackBerry management, Backup checks, phone system management, server deployment, deploying software projects, basic Cisco configuring etc.
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): BTEC Level 3
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Most of the time.
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): No
Salary(optional): 13k
Typical day-to-day work: 1st / 2nd line support. Citrix support, Active directory, Exchange, BlackBerry management, Backup checks, phone system management, server deployment, deploying software projects, basic Cisco configuring etc.
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): BTEC Level 3
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Most of the time.
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): No
Salary(optional): 13k
Yeah, there are loads of us in the industry without them, however imo you can tell the difference between those that do and a lot of those that don't
It's very hard to find a degree that would be relevant. The degrees I've seen people who enter the IT world are very broad and none relevant (i.e. support people with programming and web development rather than hardware and software support).
I personally find the people without degrees and who have worked hard to get where they are (with applicable Microsoft / Cisco qualifications) are a lot better than those with degrees who haven't really got any idea what a support job is like.
M.
Job Title/Description: Systems Engineer
Typical day-to-day work: Responisble for ESX, Citrix, Server Support, Network / Firewall Support
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): MCITP: EA / MCSE 2003 / MCDST / VCP 3 / VCP 4
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Yup!
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): Should be fine!
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Programming is still a big part of a CE degree, but you'll be doing proper programming C/ASM/C++/VHDL etc. rather than java/VB/python whatever else CS tends to do. Along with this you learn a lot of electronic engineering and linux type stuff.
Personally I love it, its pretty tough but totally worth it. At the moment the job market is very good and there is plenty of money to be made if thats what drives you
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Soldato
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Job: Project Manager (formally Systems Admin)
Day to day: Making lots of paperwork. Managing expectations, budgets and more.
Education: Degree
Job Satisfaction: Yes but it can get a little dull at times and very stressful at other times.
Job Security: Yes. Public Sector area not likely to be hit by cuts.
Salary: About 5% below the going rate but I have a final salary pension so win win.
Public sector? Pm? Did you do prince2? Worth it?
ok i dont work in IT but here is some room for thought
Job Title/Description: Head Chef
Typical day-to-day work: Running of the kitchen, cooking and prep
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): NVQ 3
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Love it
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): People have to eat
Salary(optional): ranges for people from £20,000 to £50,000+ Once qualified
Job Title/Description: Head Chef
Typical day-to-day work: Running of the kitchen, cooking and prep
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): NVQ 3
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Love it
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): People have to eat
Salary(optional): ranges for people from £20,000 to £50,000+ Once qualified
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
You think you prove the theory? Really?
I'd like to disprove this theory - a friend of mine graduated from Uni and started a job as a Consultant at a multinational IT services company as his first job out of Uni. He earns twice what you do, and is your age. He would not have got the job without his degree, it was a prerequisite.
Sorry but earning £20k a year after 8 years of work does not 'proove' that a degree is 'not neccessary'.
What you really mean is that if you want to do helpdesk work and progress up from there, a degree is not required. Which is true - but if your aspirations after years of work are helpdesk then going to Uni isn't the best idea anyway.
The bottom line is that for some areas of IT, a degree is important. For others, it's less important and for some, it makes no difference. The earnings tend to reflect this, mind.
Experience is important but isn't the be all and end all - there are numerous people who are not really that good at what they do despite having done it for many years. Experience counts for nothing without the ability to learn from it and use it to further yourself. Heck I've got a decade of experience at playing FPS games on PC and Im *still* rubbish at them
I'd like to counter that knowledge is more important than experience on its own, but concede that experience is an excellent wait to gain knowledge
Tbh, ive gotta agree with MrLOL on this.[TW]Fox;17980318 said:
Degree's are not a requirement of going far in IT. They probably help when the recruiter has a bias towards people with degrees, which is quite common. However all things being even, imo, degrees dont completely help.
Assuming you mean 'IT' as in the tech side of it.
I dont have a degree and im on a good wage/position considering my age.
Job Title/Description: Security and Software Management Specialist (naff title!)
Typical day-to-day work: Work in a server support team supporting the business infrastructure (not the network though!).
As well as all the day to day admin stuff I'm the lead seucirty person, responsible for all the technical control systems in place, vulnerability management, ISO27001 bumph and all the other security stuff.
On top of that my other area is in SCCM/Software Asset Management/software packaging and deployment.
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): Education wise a degree in Engineering, professional qualfication wise probably my CISSP.
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Yup
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): No, work in the public sector for an agency that's being abolished, got until around March 2012 to find a new job though so hopefully plenty of time.
Salary(optional): 40k+
Aye, we know that 'proove' is spelt prove
Not wanting to dwell on the whole degree/no degree thing in IT, as Fox says yeah you don't need one, but in a lot of cases it'll help you along the way and can open up better positions earlier for you.
For instance I would not have got my first IT role, which I was earning more than 20k, if I did not have my degree. Wouldn't have even got an interview.
Typical day-to-day work: Work in a server support team supporting the business infrastructure (not the network though!).
As well as all the day to day admin stuff I'm the lead seucirty person, responsible for all the technical control systems in place, vulnerability management, ISO27001 bumph and all the other security stuff.
On top of that my other area is in SCCM/Software Asset Management/software packaging and deployment.
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): Education wise a degree in Engineering, professional qualfication wise probably my CISSP.
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Yup
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): No, work in the public sector for an agency that's being abolished, got until around March 2012 to find a new job though so hopefully plenty of time.
Salary(optional): 40k+
Yeah, there are loads of us in the industry without them, however imo you can tell the difference between those that do and a lot of those that don't
Aye, we know that 'proove' is spelt prove
Not wanting to dwell on the whole degree/no degree thing in IT, as Fox says yeah you don't need one, but in a lot of cases it'll help you along the way and can open up better positions earlier for you.
For instance I would not have got my first IT role, which I was earning more than 20k, if I did not have my degree. Wouldn't have even got an interview.
Job Title/Description: Software Analyst/Developer (.NET)
Typical day-to-day work: Collecting specifications for new software developments that have been requested by other departments. Developing the software, working with the test and support teams and fixing bugs in existing software.
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): Diploma - BSc (Hons) Software Engineering.
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Yep,the vast majority of the time. It depends on the stage of the project
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): No.
Salary(optional): 25k+ in a rural area (Somerset). The salaries rapidly go up if working in a city. A similar job to mine in Bristol could get 35k.
Typical day-to-day work: Collecting specifications for new software developments that have been requested by other departments. Developing the software, working with the test and support teams and fixing bugs in existing software.
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): Diploma - BSc (Hons) Software Engineering.
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Yep,the vast majority of the time. It depends on the stage of the project
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): No.
Salary(optional): 25k+ in a rural area (Somerset). The salaries rapidly go up if working in a city. A similar job to mine in Bristol could get 35k.
Agree with fox. Knowing something is one thing, being able to learn from it and advance is something different.
Anyone should be able to do something to a reasonable standard after doing it long enough.
Having said that, I know a few people that, even though they are paid well, cannot do their job! Even after years of doing it!
Anyone should be able to do something to a reasonable standard after doing it long enough.
Having said that, I know a few people that, even though they are paid well, cannot do their job! Even after years of doing it!
I've found from experience of people where I worked before there was a clear difference in the way people worked depending on if they had a degree or not.
I know I'll get shot down for it, but generally the people without had a real chip on their shoulder about it, and would always bang on about how they didn't need a degree. Yet it was easy to see that whilst they could follow instrutions to do things, they were unable to work things out for themselves.
I'm not working there any more, but my wife is, and it's still the same from what I hear.
Now this is by no means the rule, I also know plenty of people who don't have them who are earning a lot more than me, one chap has done so by contracting most his working life rather than being in a perm role for a long time.
You always find it's people who don't have degrees though who bring it up and bang on about how they are not needed.
Soldato
- Joined
- 16 May 2008
- Posts
- 2,584
- Location
- Bristol
Job Title/Description: 2nd line support
Typical day-to-day work: troubleshooting epos systems, screen control systems, ADSL connections.
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): HNC in eBusiness or Cisco CCNA
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Love it thanks to working with a good team of people
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): No, my job was outsourced before I joined and from what I've heard they did a terrible job.
Salary(optional): 18.5k
Typical day-to-day work: troubleshooting epos systems, screen control systems, ADSL connections.
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): HNC in eBusiness or Cisco CCNA
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Love it thanks to working with a good team of people
Job security(do you feel you are at risk of having your job outsourced to india?): No, my job was outsourced before I joined and from what I've heard they did a terrible job.
Salary(optional): 18.5k
Plugging wires into boxes doesn't require a degree - multiple guess vendor exam will do - however designing what goes into the box will likely be done by someone with an MEng etc...
Configuring/supporting an operating system can be done by someone else who's passed some multiple guess vendor exam - though the people who work for the vendor and coded the operating system (these days at least) will often likely have degrees.
IT is a broad area, whether or not a degree is useful depends on what you want to do within 'IT'. If you finish your degree and end up doing a generic IT support role then perhaps a degree was a waste of time, if you end up on some grad scheme at the likes of Google then perhaps not.
Job Title/Description: 3rd Line Support, Wintel
Typical day-to-day work: Dealing with support and and change requests and pushing new infrastructure projects through
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): A levels
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Love my job, its the best IT job I've had and I'm lucky enough to work with a great team.
Job security I feel safe in my role, the company is doing well and my role is not something they would outsource currently.
Salary(optional): £30k+
Typical day-to-day work: Dealing with support and and change requests and pushing new infrastructure projects through
Highest qualification (GCSE/Diploma etc): A levels
Job satisifaction (do you enjoy your day-to-day work): Love my job, its the best IT job I've had and I'm lucky enough to work with a great team.
Job security I feel safe in my role, the company is doing well and my role is not something they would outsource currently.
Salary(optional): £30k+
Sounds like we're in very similar jobs but different areas, fortunately being in Scotland we don't have the utterly stupid idea of the GPs getting budgetary control, yet.
That's actually a good way of putting it.
Well the trouble is of course that there isnt a blanket statement we can make thats definitely "right".
It largely comes down to experience, the above is your experiences and you have (quite rightly) formed your opinions from those experiences. I , the other hand , have had almost the opposite experience.
For example, right now I have a work colleague who is consistently (and I mean virtually weekly) banging on about how he should be earning more money, having pay rises etc, because he has a degree. Trouble is that he is absolutely useless at his job, yes he has an IT related degree, but just as with your example he is simply unable to work things out for himself. Worse than that, even after repeatedly being shown what to do he continually forgets how to do it and is even unable to follow documentation that he himself wrote !
Meanwhile, another colleague who left school at 16 (no A levels or degree), and has been in the job now for 4 years is extremely adept at his job, picks up new ideas, methods and concepts very well indeed and should he decide to continue in this career will , I have no doubt, progress very far indeed.
So it largely depends upon experiences and of course those will be different from person to person. I certainly agree with some people that quite often a degree isnt needed, though it can be a help...in the right person. Clearly the individual I mentioned above though simply thinks that because he has a degree he should get more than his peers who dont.
(EDIT : I forgot, it wasnt fair to mention that the other colleague has been in the job for 4 years without specifying the time that the first individual has been in the job for. The two of them started 1 week apart, (the non-degree person started 1 week earlier than the guy with the degree), so 4 years for both of them.)
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