Stupid friend of friend driving over the limit, need to vent.

[div0]

A drink driver is someone who knowingly has an alcholic* drink and then drives whilst that achohol is still in thier blood stream.

Whether you are over the limit or not has nothing to do with it.

I'm trying to work out whether you're deliberately using a straw man argument, or whether you missed the point of my last post.

Not sticking to the 'last drink' rule, doesn't mean that you do have alcohol in your system, as proved in my previous post. It's just a way of giving yourself the best chance to ensure there is as little doubt as possible.

It is entirely possible that all 4 units would have been out of her system by the time she drove.

And so calling her a 'drink driver' and advising him to 'take the keys off her' is OTT.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

And we go back to the start again

Any alcohol impairs your driving skill, even if you are under the limit

Thank you. I'm glad there are still some sensible peope contributing to this thread.

 

[sanaxe1]

How do they know they aren't a danger though? They're driving will still be impaired if they are have a drink but are under the legal limit (significantly impaired looking at some of the tests). Would it not be simpler just not to have a drink if they are going to drive?

Surely only alcoholics NEED a drink?

The same can be said for driving in the snow or in heavy rain both of these visually impair the driver among other things and make it a lot more dangerous for the person driving the car and other people , Should people not drive in snow or rain?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

I'm trying to work out whether you're deliberately using a straw man argument, or whether you missed the point of my last post.

I've probably missed it because there wasn't one?

Quote:
It is entirely possible that all 4 units would have been out of her system by the time she drove.
And so calling her a 'drink driver' and advising him to 'take the keys off her' is OTT.

Or was that it?

In that case, it's entirely possible she WAS over the limit, and even if not, her driving was probably still significantly impaired. I know I wouldn't have felt comfortable letting her drive home and if she had done so despite my request for her not to do so, I'd have called the Police.

I'd rather she had a chat from the boys in blue and be let off than her kill herself or someone else.

The same can be said for driving in the snow or in heavy rain both of these visually impair the driver among other things and make it a lot more dangerous for the person driving the car and other people , Should people not drive in snow or rain?

I don't think driving in the rain is more dangerous than driving after having had a drink! Are you really trying to say that driving in the rain = drink driving? Really?

If it's raining, then you slow down and adjust your driving to the conditions, thus reducing the risk.

If you're drink driving the point is you CAN'T adjust to driving that way. You cannot reduce the risk posed by drink driving, other than not having a drink in the first place!

 

[sanaxe1]

I've probably missed it because there wasn't one?



Or was that it? In that case, it's entirely possible she WAS over the limit, and even if not, her driving was probably still significantly impaired. I know I wouldn't have felt comfortable letting her drive home and if she had done so despite my request for her not to do so, I'd have called the Police.

I'd rather she had a chat from the boys in blue and be let off than her kill herself or someone else.



I don't think driving in the rain is more dangerous than driving after having had a drink! Are you really trying to say that driving in the rain = drink driving? Really?

Errm i bet you their are a lot more weather related crashes then there are due to having 1 pint.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Errm i bet you their are a lot more weather related crashes then there are due to having 1 pint.

Stupid point of argument.

A driver CANNOT control the weather but they can adjust thier driving to suit the conditions.

However, thay are quite capable of NOT having a drink but they CANNOT adjust thier driving to suit "having a drink".

 

[div0]

Or was that it? In that case, it's entirely possible she WAS over the limit, and even if not, her driving was probably still significantly impaired.

Drinking 4 units over a 4 hour period, would almost certainly not put her over the limit. she may, or may not, have still had some alcohol in her system - but without more details, its really not possible for anyone to say.

In fact I believe you said yourself that the body removes roughly 1 unit per hour. I know my maths results weren't as good as I'd hoped for, but.....

The point is, there are far, far too many variables and we're only getting one side of the story. The one thing that seems clear to me is that she didn't have THAT much to drink.

Yes it's possible that she still had some alcohol in her system, but it's also possible she had none by the time she drove.

I know I wouldn't have felt comfortable letting her drive home and if she had done so despite my request for her not to do so, I'd have called the Police.

I'd rather she had a chat from the boys in blue and be let off than her kill herself or someone else.

Fair enough, but again I think it's probably way OTT, assuming that the 2 pints in 4 hours is correct.

 

[div0]

I don't think driving in the rain is more dangerous than driving after having had a drink! Are you really trying to say that driving in the rain = drink driving? Really?

Well considering you class anyone as a 'drink driver' for knowingly having any amount of alcohol before driving then, yes, I'd say his comment is fair.

A driver setting out to drive, when they know the roads are covered in snow\ice, or driving in torrential rain, is far more of a risk to themselves and others, than someone who has had a sip of beer, driving in good conditions.

On one hand you want to call everyone who has even the smallest quantity of alcohol in their system a 'drink driver', but on the other hand you won't accept that small quantities of alcohol affect their ability to drive less than other factors, which other people find perfectly acceptable.

No-one is disputing that alcohol affects your judgement, even in small quantities. But equally people are prepared to take much bigger risks, by choosing to set off in bad weather - and somehow you find that acceptable?

If it's raining, then you slow down and adjust your driving to the conditions, thus reducing the risk.

If you're drink driving the point is you CAN'T adjust to driving that way. You cannot reduce the risk posed by drink driving, other than not having a drink in the first place!

It doesn't matter if you can adjust your driving - there is still far more chance of having an accident in bad weather, than good. But people accept that increased risk.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

The one thing that seems clear to me is that she didn't have THAT much to drink.

1 drink is too much.

A driver setting out to drive, when they know the roads are covered in snow\ice, or driving in torrential rain, is far more of a risk to themselves and others, than someone who has had a sip of beer.

I disagree.

A driver setting out on snow/ice covered roads, fully aware of the conditions and properly prepared will ALWAYS be less of a risk than a drink driver - even if they are below the legal limit. You're missing my point that driving on ice/snow is fine as long as you're corpus mentus as you'll be able to react to the conditions appropriately.

The number of people having an accident in ice and snow is very low compared to the number of people who manged to drive on the snow with no problems.

However, if you look at the number of drink drivers who have and accident compared to the numbers of drink drivers who dont, you'll find the accident rate much higher amonst that grouping.

No-one is disputing that alcohol affects your judgement, even in small quantities. But equally people are prepared to take much bigger risks, by choosing to set off in bad weather - and somehow you find that acceptable?

Again, we're at a point of disagreement.

I dispuite the fact that driving on ice and snow is a MUCH BIGGER risk than driving even after drinking just a single pint. I'll always state that drink driving, along with drug driving, is one of the highest risk AVOIDABLE scenarios occuring on our roads.

It doesn't matter if you can adjust your driving - there is still far more chance of having an accident in bad weather, than good. But people accept that increased risk.

Again I disagree and I don't think the stats back your statement. Driving under the influence of alcohol is a higher risk situation than driving in adverse weather sitations.

A driver setting out to drive, when they know the roads are covered in snow\ice, or driving in torrential rain, is far more of a risk to themselves and others, than someone who has had a sip of beer.

Just thought of something else.

How would you explain this situation? My friend, who managed to drive back and forth to work all last year in snow and ice for three weeks without incident managed to clip a gate post after he'd had ONE pint on his works xmas lunch? He swears blind it was because of the acohol and has since had a ZERO drink rule when he's due to drive.

 

[div0]

1 drink is too much.

Again, are you deliberately missing the point of the argument?

She had 2 drinks over 4 hours - based on what we've been told by the OP (and ignoring 'unspecified' drinks, which would be pointless to debate).

How long should she have waited before driving, in your opinion?

You keep coming out with cliché'd anti-drink driving remarks, like 'one drink is too much'. You're just calling someone a 'drink driver' because you assume they still have alcohol in their system. When it's perfectly plausible that the 4 units she drank could be completely out of her system by the time she drove.

I'm going to ignore your other points, as you have completely misunderstood what I wrote. In fact you don't seem to be able to read other people's conflicting views, and counter them with anything other than generic anti-drinking comments. So I'm afraid I'm going to have to assume that you're trolling me, and I'm going to step away from the debate now.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

She had 2 drinks over 4 hours - based on what we've been told by the OP (and ignoring 'unspecified' drinks, which would be pointless to debate).

How long should she have waited before driving, in your opinion?

4 hours after the last drink - then it'd be a pretty safe bet that there wouldn't be, or a minuscule amount, any alcohol in her system.

As I've already said, I lost a niece to a drink driver - someone who was only 1.1 times over the drink drive limit. Probably goes some way to my low tolerance of people drinking alcohol - any amount - and driving.

 

[gambitt]

A driver setting out on snow/ice covered roads, fully aware of the conditions and properly prepared will ALWAYS be less of a risk than a drink driver - even if they are below the legal limit.

After witnessing some of the "driving" that took place in the recent snow, I think you're been living in a dreamworld if you honestly believe that.

 

[Retromatic]

Some **** come out of a club in 2000 about 5am but still very busy in the area. He was our lift home but was blatantly drunk. We all refused to get in the car and he got all stroppy and burnt off up the road only to smack into a parked Volvo estate totalling the front of it and pretty much his own car. Didn't stop him driving 15 miles back to his own house.

Apart from that the father in law is a firefighter and has told me some pretty horrific stories of drink drivers that really hit home.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

After witnessing some of the "driving" that took place in the recent snow, I think you're been living in a dreamworld if you honestly believe that.

I think you're the one living in a dream world (or living in hope) if you seriously think drink driving is safer than driving on a bit of ice and snow.

In the last bout of snow/ice that the UK experienced, insurers reported an 3% rise in insurcance claims - i.e. reported accidents. That essentially equates the risk of having an accident in snow and ice increases by 1.03.

If you have a blood alcohol limit of 70mg, about 1.5 pints in an hour, which is UNDER the legal limit, your risk of an accident increases by 1.5 - that's a 46% higher risk when driving under the influence than driving in snow and ice. At 1.5 times the limit, roughly 3 pints in an hour, your chance of an accident increases to 5 times that of a sober person! Twice the limit and it rises to 20 times!

Do you enjoy the odd pint down the pub and then drive home? Sounds to me like you are trying to justify drink driving by stating the risks are overstated.

 

[wordy]

The thing is it's all well and good describing what happpened, but to judge this incident on it's merits alone we'll need to see pictures of the lass involved.

 

[Burnsy2023]

My position on this is quite simple really. I don't drink and drive. I don't care if I'm over or under the legal limit, to me that's a moot point. If I had a crash and heaven forbid actually killed someone, I need to know that my actions that day were either beyond my control or that my driving talent was to blame. If I put any alcohol into the equation, I'll always wonder if that played a pivotal role in the incident. I'd much rather not be wondering that for the rest of my life. Also alcohol does affect you below the legal limit. How much depends on you physiology, but I'd rather not have that in the equation.

Also, if I have strong suspicions that someone is over the limit, even if they are a close friend, I won't let them drive. Period.

 

[psd99]

Story of my life



This too.

every hole is a goal......

 

[matthab]

My rule is if im driving I will not touch a drop of alcohol as I dont want to be the guy who may kill someone or cause serious injury.

If I was in the OP's position I would have done the same.

 

[Pate]

4 hours after the last drink - then it'd be a pretty safe bet that there wouldn't be, or a minuscule amount, any alcohol in her system.

As I've already said, I lost a niece to a drink driver - someone who was only 1.1 times over the drink drive limit. Probably goes some way to my low tolerance of people drinking alcohol - any amount - and driving.

Did it ever get it into your head it may have been an accident? **** happens that no one can avoid.