What route for Electrical engineer.

[AndyT]

The OP has stated he wants to be an Electrical ENGINEER not a technician or sparky. Many people don't seem to understand the fundamental differences between the 2.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_engineer_and_technician

To be an electrical engineer you would need to complete a degree accredited by the Institute of Engineering and Technology (IET) to either BEng or MEng level. From here you would EASILY find a graduate position in a number of industries (as long as you have a good degree, 2:1 or above). Engineering is one of the only industries where graduates are still in high demand. Well done to you for not going for media studies or history of art. Note that these days you will probably have to look into getting at least one work placement over the summer holiday at uni to give yourself some practical experience for your CV. This will make you stand out from the rest.

You would then probably enrol on a graduate scheme, doing continual professional training with a view to gaining your Chartership (CEng) status, meaning you are considered a professionaly registered, competent engineer.

There are a few ways to get to uni though.

1. Do A-levels: Mandatory Maths and Physics and one other relevant course. you will probably need Bs and above to get into a decent red-brick uni.

Advantages - shorter time frame, plenty of birds at 6th form minimal responsibility
Disadvantages - You don't get paid, ultimately you will lack the practical skills of Electrical Engineers who have gone the apprencticeship route; however by the time you're working this probably won't be an issue as you will be an ENGINEER not a TECHNICIAN and will hardly ever have to get the wire cutters out. Competition for places on courses will be VERY HIGH over the next few years. You will also have to pay for it all yourself when you get to uni.

1. Do an Apprencticeship: Arrange to do an apprencticeship with a reputable local company that provides ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING SERVICES TO INDUSTRY -not just your next door neighbour's dad's mate who happens to be a sparky. They will pay for your training and after a few years may give you the opportnity to go to uni, for free or as close as.

Advantages - You get paid. You get good practical knowledge that could prove to be invaluable later on in your career. You will probably mature a lot faster than your A-Level mates. A decent company may pay for you to go to uni.
Disadvantages - You may get treated like a ***** for a long time. It requires time, dedication and commitment. You will get < £100/wk pay. It takes longer to get to uni, about 4 years. Generally there will be no fit birds on an electrical apprenticeship. There will undoubtedly be a few lazy ***-heads on the scheme.


Probably the best way to do it is:
Do A-Levels, get Bs and above
Apply for a Year-in Industry - Get paid for a year in a real work environment. Get experience. Probably get paid £14k+
Go to uni, do a 4 year MEng degree at a red brick uni
Do at least 1 ten week work placement in the summer holidays between uni years. Get paid. Get experience
Get a 2:1 or above
Get a good job with a decent international company
Become Chartered, CEng after 4-5 years
Get paid a decent amount (Alternatively move to America, Canada, Germany, Japan, UAE - Get paid loads)
Get 10-15 years experience and maybe go contracting for £50/hr+


Quite why you would want to go into Electrical Engineering though I don't know?! Mechanical all the way!

SOURCE: - Me - career Mechanical Engineer. Did A-Levels and uni, work with people who have gone the apprenticeship route.

In the grand scheme of things you will probably end up getting paid a similar amount over your career whichever way you go. It depends whether you like school or want to get into work.

Good luck - Electrical Engineers are amongst the highest paid engineers. You will never be banker rich, but you'll do alright. Remember that something like a third of the CEOs of the worlds blue chip companies have an engineering background...

 

[wonko]

If you're aiming to become a chartered electrical engineer, I was going to refer you towards the IET web site, but it has pretty much all been said. I think you pretty much need a masters degree nowadays, and one that has been accredited by them. So look at what degrees courses are accredited, and explore what route to take to get onto an interesting one.

 

[ripped]

I've pretty much changed my mind, i would probably be better going through the acidemic route, and getting placements in holidays, would i get them once in uni or could i apply for one once in 6th form.

Also my schools closet course to electronics is systems and control, would this be best or would it best to brave the ~20 mi journey to newcastle collage

 

[drdimmer]

Like a few others in the thread I'm studying electrical engineering at a decent redbrick and I'm in my 3rd of 4 years of the undergraduate MEng.

First of all, engineering isn't easy (in my opinion ), you really have to have an interest in maths and physics and engineering as a whole, as the drop out rate on the course is phenomenal. The trend in my year has been that those that go via the BTEC/HNC route before entering the degree are very good with the hands on practicals but struggle with the maths, and those who go via the science A level route find the maths a lot more bearable but when first sat in front of an oscilloscope are clueless (this is what happened in my case!). If I could start again I would have done as I did my first time round and entered Uni via the A-levels route, as I believe this offers better preparation for the course.

In regards to becoming chartered, you must have an engineering degree and either have a Masters or have studied to an EQUIVALENT level along with the relevant continued professional development, this criteria can be met by various courses that some graduate schemes offer.

For the past two summers, I have carried out 10 week placements working for a local electricity authority that operates 11/33 kV networks. I would strongly suggest doing this as it gives some relevancy to the course when you get back after the summer and helps keep the motivation high. The things you get involved in from a graduate electrical power engineering perspective include power flow system analysis, fault calculations, sub station design and commissioning, HV switching, SCADA systems as well as general contracting work - and I'm sure I've missed loads out.

From my point of view I haven't regretted my studies/work experience so far and would strongly urge those of you who are interested in science to look into the subject.

 

[DAnDan]

I've pretty much changed my mind, i would probably be better going through the acidemic route, and getting placements in holidays, would i get them once in uni or could i apply for one once in 6th form.

Also my schools closet course to electronics is systems and control, would this be best or would it best to brave the ~20 mi journey to newcastle collage

A lot of unis should offer what are called sandwich degrees, where you do a year out working for a relevant company. I'd advise look into those, it adds a year to the length of the degree, but you get a decent pay for the year, and tuition fees are only around 15% of the usual for that year. Adds some great experience, and a good reference to your CV for when you graduate.

Also a lot of people get job offers from the company they worked with on their placement year if they do well.

 

[drdimmer]

A lot of unis should offer what are called sandwich degrees, where you do a year out working for a relevant company. I'd advise look into those, it adds a year to the length of the degree, but you get a decent pay for the year, and tuition fees are only around 15% of the usual for that year. Adds some great experience, and a good reference to your CV for when you graduate.

Also a lot of people get job offers from the company they worked with on their placement year if they do well.

Yeah I've had a friend do that and he has got a job offer subsequently from it.

 

[DAnDan]

Yeah I've had a friend do that and he has got a job offer subsequently from it.

It's a great way to get your foot in the door so to speak.

 

[alx]

A lot of unis should offer what are called sandwich degrees, where you do a year out working for a relevant company. I'd advise look into those, it adds a year to the length of the degree, but you get a decent pay for the year, and tuition fees are only around 15% of the usual for that year. Adds some great experience, and a good reference to your CV for when you graduate.

Also a lot of people get job offers from the company they worked with on their placement year if they do well.

I did this, well worth it - learnt a lot on my placement year

 

[Amp34]

If you want to be an Electrical Engineer, go to 6th form or college to Alevels (none of this BTEC or NVQ crap) and get a B or C in maths and physics, plus a 3rd Alevel of your choice (not media studies).

Then apply to a decent University - One with challenging courses and a good reputation. A decent example of this is Loughborough.

You don't need a Masters (M Eng) although it is better than the B Eng.

Whatever you do, it MUST be done at a decent University or industry simply won't care!

Engineering is easy to get on, hard to stay on, as people tend to apply for subjects without a real world use such as business studies or sports science.

Actually Engineering is just about the only subject that doing an undergraduate masters (MEng) is worth while. Most other undergrad masters aren't really worth the paper they are written on over a BSc compared to a MSc (Postgrad masters, in most companies eyes) but they are definately useful in the Engineering world.

Either way most first and second years in engineering at uni will be the same and its usually quite easy to transition from a BEng to an MEng if you get the required scores during uni, even if you don't have the A-Level (or other entry) grades.

 

["andy"]

The trend in my year has been that those that go via the BTEC/HNC route before entering the degree are very good with the hands on practicals but struggle with the maths, and those who go via the science A level route find the maths a lot more bearable but when first sat in front of an oscilloscope are clueless.

same sort of things with mech eng. eg there was a guy in our first year who never knew what a spanner did... he was a maths genius though

 

[Amp34]

I see, in that case my advice would be this.

If you can cope with lots of maths then go the A level route.

If you're not really such a maths fan then maybe the BTEC route is a better way forward?

If you're not a fan of maths then don't do engineering at uni tbh.

It will be full of it. From experience if you struggle at A-Level Maths then you WILL struggle on a decent engineering course.

You give some fresh graduate electrical engineer a task of soldering some components to pcbs and I doubt they would do a very good job.

But that's because they aren't an electrician/technician. The graduate Electrical engineers will almost certainly not be doing that...

 

[DAnDan]

Actually Engineering is just about the only subject that doing an undergraduate masters (MEng) is worth while. Most other undergrad masters aren't really worth the paper they are written on over a BSc compared to a MSc (Postgrad masters, in most companies eyes) but they are definately useful in the Engineering world.

Either way most first and second years in engineering at uni will be the same and its usually quite easy to transition from a BEng to an MEng if you get the required scores during uni, even if you don't have the A-Level (or other entry) grades.

I'd disagree with the lack of benefits for an M*** over a BSc in the respective field. Usually both can be completed in the same time, and with the M you cover what you would do with the BSc plus some extra MSc modules. So basically you're learning more, in the same time. Seems win win to me!

Also employers do seem to recognise Ms over BScs, I've just been through applying for placements for a year in industry (MChem Chemistry degree), and a lot of them specify MChem students over BSc, with the same for their grad programs (from discussing this during interviews with them). I guess it varies subject to subject, but it's not just engineering where it's worthwhile.

 

[Amp34]

I'd disagree with the lack of benefits for an M*** over a BSc in the respective field. Usually both can be completed in the same time, and with the M you cover what you would do with the BSc plus some extra MSc modules. So basically you're learning more, in the same time. Seems win win to me!

Also employers do seem to recognise Ms over BScs, I've just been through applying for placements for a year in industry (MChem Chemistry degree), and a lot of them specify MChem students over BSc, with the same for their grad programs (from discussing this during interviews with them). I guess it varies subject to subject, but it's not just engineering where it's worthwhile.

It generally is though, there will be some other specific courses and specific companies that will see an M*** as worthy of standing alongside an MSc but they are few and far between. Most of the time having an M*** will not open any more doors for you than having a BSc. You may get picked over someone with a BSc for the same job but very few industries/companies will accept an undergraduate masters when they specify a Masters degree, and therein lies the problem.

The one positive is that an M*** is subsidised and "paid for" by the government (ie you can get a student loan) so it can help you a little but someone with a BSc and a bit of experience/interviews well could quite easily be picked over someone with a M*** and no experience/interviews only OK.

I've got quite a few friends who fell into this trap.

 

[JonJ678]

If you're not a fan of maths then don't do engineering at uni tbh.

The man's right. Engineering degrees are brutally difficult. Mathematics and programming are the distinguishing skills in mechanical engineering, this is more exaggerated in electrical. I haven't met an engineering student yet who doesn't have a pretty sound physical intuition, but there's a few who don't like maths much and they are not having fun.

The advice I would give is to read maths, physics and further maths at A level. If you aren't consistently getting A's in these with ease, don't go for engineering. It'll be four years of hell followed by working in management. It's a toss up between computing and electronics for the forth.

If all is going well and you're offered a place, teach yourself C before the course starts.

 

[DAnDan]

It generally is though, there will be some other specific courses and specific companies that will see an M*** as worthy of standing alongside an MSc but they are few and far between. Most of the time having an M*** will not open any more doors for you than having a BSc. You may get picked over someone with a BSc for the same job but very few industries/companies will accept an undergraduate masters when they specify a Masters degree, and therein lies the problem.

The one positive is that an M*** is subsidised and "paid for" by the government (ie you can get a student loan) so it can help you a little but someone with a BSc and a bit of experience/interviews well could quite easily be picked over someone with a M*** and no experience/interviews only OK.

I've got quite a few friends who fell into this trap.

I agree that it won't be valued over an MSc, but it definitely will be a help when you turn up to the interview against the equivelent person with a BSc, and as both degrees take the same time, I see no reason not to go for the better qualification, even if it is only to help you get an edge.

 

[robgti]

Sorry I have not read all the thread but I did read the OP. I work for a automation company in Washington who are always keen to take on graduate's. If you are interested then please send me a message via trust and I will send you the phone number.

 

[Amp34]

I agree that it won't be valued over an MSc, but it definitely will be a help when you turn up to the interview against the equivelent person with a BSc, and as both degrees take the same time, I see no reason not to go for the better qualification, even if it is only to help you get an edge.

They don't though.

An undergraduate masters takes 4 years rather than 3 for a BSc.

I know quite a few who did their 4 year MSci and are now on an MSc in essentially the same subject so they can distinguish themselves against all the other undergrads. If you want to do a masters do a postgrad one, which will make a difference, unless you want to get into academia or are doing an engineering course (or one of the small number of others that actually do make a difference).

 

[mufc802]

The man's right. Engineering degrees are brutally difficult. Mathematics and programming are the distinguishing skills in mechanical engineering, this is more exaggerated in electrical. I haven't met an engineering student yet who doesn't have a pretty sound physical intuition, but there's a few who don't like maths much and they are not having fun.

The advice I would give is to read maths, physics and further maths at A level. If you aren't consistently getting A's in these with ease, don't go for engineering. It'll be four years of hell followed by working in management. It's a toss up between computing and electronics for the forth.

If all is going well and you're offered a place, teach yourself C before the course starts.

I like maths, but since I screwed up my a-levels and now doing a btec does this mean I will fail at engineering at uni? I think not, if I try hard enough I think I can do it. You make it sound like you need to be a genius to do it, so why do they let btec students into uni then?

 

[Amp34]

The idea is if you're not a fan of maths or don't have a very good grounding in it (A-Level maths would be that, the mechanics and pure(core) modules really do come into their own) you WILL find it rather hard going.

For starters in the year at uni that I did engineering there was one module on pure maths (talking advanced A-Level and above maths) and another on more specific engineering maths. There was maths interspersed all round the other modules too.

If you didn't do A-Level maths it's not a show stopper but it will be significantly harder for you in that regard.

 

[ripped]

Thanks Again everyone.

It looks like the Academic route is going to be better then.

These Sandwich courses? Are they just the normals ones with a year release from uni , in to a job? Are they the ones that you work at in the holidays as well, kinda similar to A sponsorship.

The company that sponsors the Engineering course Have gave me information on a thing called PEDAR (professional engineering development and retention) which seems to be similar to the sandwich course , but you get the 1 years "work experience" before you start. John , the dude from TDR ( the "sponsor" company) said we'd apply for the uni place, ask them to hold it for a year, whilst we did the WE year, and i would start a year later, but i would have work in the holidays, and a potential Job at the end. Also we get to keep in contact with TDR and use there mentors if needed.

What one would be better? I'm thinking PEDAR because of the obvious benefits, but the sandwich course is more common.

EDIT; i have just read the above comment, and to be honest, I Quite enjoy maths, im not sayings it fun, but its enjoyable when i can do the stuff. I Am not the best, but have got a A and An A* in Module 3 and 1, But the hardest,5, is coming , and that has trig. etc in , so we will see.

So if i stay at sixth form , will definatly do maths and physics, probably Systems and control, Not sure on the 4th, but i will have to drop one for year 13 ( 4 in year 12, and 3 in year 13). One is called AS and the other A2 but im not sure which way round, and tbh why i have to drop one.
Thanks,
Ripped.