Another excellent post on the official xbox forums!

[SimonR]

To be honest the XBL moderation team/enforcement team leaves a lot to be desired.

Too be honest the XBL community leave a lot to be desired. TBH I dont think that they go far enough, not only should they ban consoles and XBL accounts but I I'd like to see IPs banned as well. Stepto and his team do a damn fine job and I for one support their actions. People forget that XBL is a PRIVATE community with a very well established rules-set. If you dont want to to play by THEIR rules, then people should go and find alternative entertainment and stop trying to ruin it for the people who do want to play here, by Microsoft's rules.

Mushii

 

[biron_w]

Too be honest the XBL community leave a lot to be desired. TBH I dont think that they go far enough, not only should they ban consoles and XBL accounts but I I'd like to see IPs banned as well. Stepto and his team do a damn fine job and I for one support their actions. People forget that XBL is a PRIVATE community with a very well established rules-set. If you dont want to to play by THEIR rules, then people should go and find alternative entertainment and stop trying to ruin it for the people who do want to play here, by Microsoft's rules.

Mushii

Gotta agree with that. It's like any Members Club that you pay for - if you break the rules and get banned then it's tough really.

 

[nicktay2605]

How can anybody defend stuff like this? He's a cheat, banning his account isn't really enough, his IP address should be blocked too. Speaking of cheating, I've noticed suspicious play in CoD Black Ops recently; people looking at walls etc, very dodgy.

 

[Garido]

Too be honest the XBL community leave a lot to be desired. TBH I dont think that they go far enough, not only should they ban consoles and XBL accounts but I I'd like to see IPs banned as well. Stepto and his team do a damn fine job and I for one support their actions. People forget that XBL is a PRIVATE community with a very well established rules-set. If you dont want to to play by THEIR rules, then people should go and find alternative entertainment and stop trying to ruin it for the people who do want to play here, by Microsoft's rules.

Mushii

I think they do a poor job and can only speak from experience. I was one of the few to actually take Microsoft to a civil court (in Australia) and get them to refund my xbox live subscription. I was harassed and unfairly banned for 48 hours because of something I had in my bio.

An american mod deemed it unsuitable when in fact it was his opinion. It did not break any rule and I caught him out. He then subsequently deleted my posts on the forum in which I could reply. I was furious, called xbox live support and told I couldn't get my money for membership back.

Called consumer affairs in australia and took it a civil court where after a hard win I got some money back. Never went back since, not sure if the Enforcement team officer was stood down. But in my experience, they are muppets. They do a PATHETIC job.

I always played by the rules, it's a shame the enforcement team member got butthurt and had to resort to deleting my replies. You have to realise that no one is perfect, not even the mods and they too can be just as bad as the people who are often banned.

There were cases of people being banned for expressing a political belief. What's funny is that you could have a display picture of an elephant (which is the symbol for one of their main political parties).

Gotta agree with that. It's like any Members Club that you pay for - if you break the rules and get banned then it's tough really.

Friends birthday is on 11/09/86 and had a bio of reflecting the date. He got suspended because of it and his appeal was unsuccessful. Is that fair?

The enforcement team should target people who actively cheat or go "Are you from England, well guess what I ****** the queen last night etc". Never happens though.

EDIT: Please note I'm not trying to troll or start a fight, just reflecting my experiences. Shame that none of them are positive. I think being an Enforcement team officer doesn't mean your opinion is right, nor does it mean you are ALWAYS right, rather, you have the ability to make decisions whether a person has breached the CoC.

 

[kylew]

How can anybody defend stuff like this? He's a cheat, banning his account isn't really enough, his IP address should be blocked too. Speaking of cheating, I've noticed suspicious play in CoD Black Ops recently; people looking at walls etc, very dodgy.

How are IP bans fair and practical when most are on dynamic IPs? I've never understood why people go on about IP bans like they're infallible.

 

[kylew]

Friends birthday is on 11/09/86 and had a bio of reflecting the date. He got suspended because of it and his appeal was unsuccessful. Is that fair?

Can you elaborate on that a bit? I'm I can't figure out what you mean.

The enforcement team should target people who actively cheat or go "Are you from England, well guess what I ****** the queen last night etc". Never happens though.

Is there anyone that would be offended by that?

EDIT: Please note I'm not trying to troll or start a fight, just reflecting my experiences. Shame that none of them are positive. I think being an Enforcement team officer doesn't mean your opinion is right, nor does it mean you are ALWAYS right, rather, you have the ability to make decisions whether a person has breached the CoC.

Personally, I don't see a problem, it's happened here before with my self, where a mod can't distinguish between trolling and not liking something because it was against their opinion, I got banned for a while and no mod can give me a straight answer on anything...

 

[Garido]

I don't think anyone is defending people who cheat. I'm just having a go at those pathetic enforcement officers who never feel they are wrong, delete posts in the forum to cover up when they are wrong and can never admit to being hypocritical or making a mistake.

How are IP bans fair and practical when most are on dynamic IPs? I've never understood why people go on about IP bans like they're infallible.

Indeed a very good point. The enforcement system never works. I was constantly harassed by so many american players. I'd report them. I'd occasionally check their profile but none of them would have the "Code of Conduct" in their bio.

It's such a shame because all me and my mates wanted to do was chill out and play some vidya (cheaper than going to the movies and more convenient than a night out). The thing is, the americans you face, if they are in a big enough group, what they do is get their friends to file mass complaints against you and if they all do it for the same reason, you're the one who ends up getting banned, even if you're innocent.

Kind of like stacking the votes.

 

[Garido]

Can you elaborate on that a bit? I'm I can't figure out what you mean.

Is there anyone that would be offended by that?

Pretty sure the whole world doesn't revolve around america. People can celebrate their birthday. Let me put it this way, if he was born a day earlier or a day later, it would be fine. 12 October is similar day to me, but if my friend had that in his Bio, nothing would have happened.

Personally, I don't see a problem, it's happened here before with my self, where a mod can't distinguish between trolling and not liking something because it was against their opinion, I got banned for a while and no mod can give me a straight answer on anything...

I was lucky. I took them to a civil court and explained I didn't get my moneys worth as they failed to provide a service (similar to that of an ISP offering a poor product). After much wrangling I got back 6 months worth of a 12 month subscription.

I encourage you to do the same

The enforcement team has to have rules which they are governed by. They are also not perfect and are not immune to making mistakes. People have to realise this. While I'm sure they ban a lot of jerks, I'm just as sure they ban a lot of innocent people for incorrect reasons but rather than owning up to a mistake, they'd rather sweep it under a rug (like in my case).

 

[kylew]

Pretty sure the whole world doesn't revolve around america. People can celebrate their birthday. Let me put it this way, if he was born a day earlier or a day later, it would be fine. 12 October is similar day to me, but if my friend had that in his Bio, nothing would have happened.

Ah, I understand what you mean now, because they call it 9/11, I hadn't made that connection. It's completely backward that they seem to think the world revolves around America, so essentially they didn't like some one acknowledging their own birthday because it falls of the 11th of the September? That's beyond pathetic.

 

[Garido]

Ah, I understand what you mean now, because they call it 9/11, I hadn't made that connection. It's completely backward that they seem to think the world revolves around America, so essentially they didn't like some one acknowledging their own birthday because it falls of the 11th of the September? That's beyond pathetic.

Pretty much. When it was explained like that to the enforcement team he deleted some of the posts but basically posted something along the lines of "Any reference to sensative dates will be taken as a serious offense blah blah blah CoC".

If that was the case, I hope they ban anyone who mentions Easter, Christmas (you get the idea). I doubt they do though

EDIT: FWIW I got banned for posting something along the lines of "IED > Marine". It seems posting a fact can get you banned.

 

[Shamikebab]

Something tells me that isn't the whole story.

 

[Garido]

Something tells me that isn't the whole story.

Something tells me you're wrong. What I said was what happened. I have been harassed before mainly because I have a strong Australian accent (often mistaken for British). I gave up on live as did my mates. In terms of consoles now we only GT5 (PS3) but mostly stick to PC stuff.

 

[SimonR]

Pretty much. When it was explained like that to the enforcement team he deleted some of the posts but basically posted something along the lines of "Any reference to sensative dates will be taken as a serious offense blah blah blah CoC".

If that was the case, I hope they ban anyone who mentions Easter, Christmas (you get the idea). I doubt they do though

EDIT: FWIW I got banned for posting something along the lines of "IED > Marine". It seems posting a fact can get you banned.

TBH having a friend who was blown to pieces by an IED I find that offensive too. There are plenty of facts which are offensive and posting them is deliberately 'bating' the mods. Paedophilia is a fact, but seeing it in somebody's profile I think would also be offensive. So please dont hide behind something being a fact, to try and mitigate its offense.

BTW there are over 20 million subscribers to XBL, statistically one or two people taking civil action against MS is statistically insignificant, compared to the number of real kn0b jockies out there who do deserve the enforcement action that is taken against them. Stepto recconned it was around 1% of users that they take action against, which is still 200,000 idiots too many.

Mushii

 

[dannyjo22]

Friends birthday is on 11/09/86 and had a bio of reflecting the date. He got suspended because of it and his appeal was unsuccessful. Is that fair?

I'd bet he had 9/11 as his bio and not 11/9 though didn't he. I'm not sure which date system australians use but the way you have said you friends BD was 11/09/86 suggests to me you use the same system as us?

I'd bet he didn't have 11/09/86 displayed did he.

EDIT: FWIW I got banned for posting something along the lines of "IED > Marine". It seems posting a fact can get you banned.

Then you're a flame baiting ****. You knew exactly what you were trying to achieve. Just the same if I posted Atomic bomb > Japanese civilians. It's a fact alright but I'd expect any half intelligent person to expect a ban for upsetting some of the XBL community.

 

[Garido]

TBH having a friend who was blown to pieces by an IED I find that offensive too. There are plenty of facts which are offensive and posting them is deliberately 'bating' the mods. Paedophilia is a fact, but seeing it in somebody's profile I think would also be offensive. So please dont hide behind something being a fact, to try and mitigate its offense.

You're not seeing the story here. Almost anything can be seen as offensive as it's all based on opinion. I posted a fact, if you can't deal with it, get off the internet and live in a cave. What was said was NOT against the CoC. Lucky for me I was able to get some justice in the end.

I could counter your argument by saying my friend died in a car accident and that anyone with a bio "I'm going to run you over" is baiting me/can be considered offensive and thus should be banned. Can't be hypocritical here.

BTW there are over 20 million subscribers to XBL, statistically one or two people taking civil action against MS is statistically insignificant, compared to the number of real kn0b jockies out there who do deserve the enforcement action that is taken against them. Stepto recconned it was around 1% of users that they take action against, which is still 200,000 idiots too many.

There are many subscribers to XBL but I'm glad to be one of the few winners against a broken system. Took them to a civil court and with the help of fair trading we found a solution that for the most part was in my favour.

What you should realise is there are Enforcement officers out there who are just as bad as genuine cheaters and trouble makers. Not everyone is perfect and this goes for the Enforcement Team. These are people (and I use this term lightly) who can't own up to a mistake and would rather sweep it under the covers then stand up and say "this person was unfairly banned, it needs to be reversed".

You seem fairly passionate on the issue of cheating and I do to. Cheaters should be banned, not innocent people wanting to have fun with their mates because the movies are too far away and it's too cold to go out. So I ask you this in return do you know if the XBL Enforcement team are policed because to my knowledge, the buck stops with them. There is no one higher and there is no one to police them.

Secondly, why was it that people were banned for expressing a view of Obama when you could have an avatar of either political party?

Thirdly, we should all remember when Microsoft suspended or banned people who were gay or lesbian and expressed it in their profiles. Fairly homophobic.

Finally, if you're unlucky enough to be in a town called "Fort Gay" you'll have a tough time fighting the ban hammer.

We all should be accountable for our actions, enforcement team included. I'm not saying cheaters should not be banned or that jerks should be allowed to continue but rather enforcement teams should be policed by an independant organisation and that they don't make decisions on opinions but rather the CoC.

 

[Garido]

I'd bet he had 9/11 as his bio and not 11/9 though didn't he. I'm not sure which date system australians use but the way you have said you friends BD was 11/09/86 suggests to me you use the same system as us?

he had 11th of September IIRC. No mention of his year though. There were other things also in the bio such as favourite teams/games etc.

Then you're a flame baiting ****. You knew exactly what you were trying to achieve. Just the same if I posted Atomic bomb > Japanese civilians. It's a fact alright but I'd expect any half intelligent person to expect a ban for upsetting some of the XBL community.

Not flame baiting. Posting a fact. Why is it someone can have "I'm going to run you down" in their bio when they are just baiting people who have been in motor accidents. This is the thing, it's all based on opinion. What a moderator or enforcement team might say is not offensive may be offensive to an entire culture or country but they do not realise this.

For what it's worth, all my friends, and even american friends on xbox live had no issue with the motto. So again, all comes down to opinion.

 

[dannyjo22]

Secondly, why was it that people were banned for expressing a view of Obama when you could have an avatar of either political party?

Thirdly, we should all remember when Microsoft suspended or banned people who were gay or lesbian and expressed it in their profiles. Fairly homophobic.

Finally, if you're unlucky enough to be in a town called "Fort Gay" you'll have a tough time fighting the ban hammer.

We all should be accountable for our actions, enforcement team included. I'm not saying cheaters should not be banned or that jerks should be allowed to continue but rather enforcement teams should be policed by an independant organisation and that they don't make decisions on opinions but rather the CoC.

One out of three aint bad.

Thirdly, we should all remember when Microsoft suspended or banned people who were gay or lesbian and expressed it in their profiles

Of which they have changed their minds.

Finally, if you're unlucky enough to be in a town called "Fort Gay" you'll have a tough time fighting the ban hammer

No you won't, they apologised and admitted a mistake.

How about you read your own links?

 

[Garido]

One out of three aint bad.

Thirdly, we should all remember when Microsoft suspended or banned people who were gay or lesbian and expressed it in their profiles

Of which they have changed their minds.

Finally, if you're unlucky enough to be in a town called "Fort Gay" you'll have a tough time fighting the ban hammer

No you won't, they apologised and admitted a mistake.

How about you read your own links?

I did read all my own links. You're obviously having some trouble understanding my argument so let me help you. I am trying to establish here that Microsoft make it very tough for someone to prove themselves innocent. They have a VERY bad history in terms of dealing with people who have been unfairly banned and are slow to react when changing policies.

It's a shame you don't realise that.

Let's just outline some facts,

1// Microsoft banned people for expressing a political view yet you were able to have an avatar displaying your support for the Democrat or Republican party. Hypocritical.

2// Microsoft DID ban and suspend people for stating their sexual orientation. The policy has since changed but it was wrong not to mention homophobic.

3// Rather than doing research on whether a persons town was genuine or not, an Enforcement officer thought they knew better. Turns out they didn't.

There you go, explained it for you. Maybe this time it sinks in

EDIT: Like I said, I don't want to end up having a war with you but the moderation team is not perfect and leave a lot to be desired. out of curiosity, the support here seems strong for them. Are you a member of the enforcement team?

 

[SimonR]

Yes Microsoft did ban people for expressing ANY sexual orientation, which was contrary to their TOS. It wasnt Homophobic it was a blanket ban on expression of sexuality, Gay or Straight. It just so happened that the people who made the loudest noise about this was the Gay Gaming Community. After careful consideration MS decided to CHANGE their policy (its called progression) and allow expression of sexual orientation. There is no hypocracy here, just evolution.

The reason people become defensive over the enforcement team, is that in 99.99999% of cases they do a very good job. As the old addage goes...'the lady doth protest too much methinks'... is generally appropriate for people who scream and shout their innocense and try to pour scorn on those people within an enforcement role, and 99.9999% of the time those people turn out to be the douchebags that everyone knows them to be, particularly when they have a track record for similar or other offenses. The reason that you are attracting so much scorn is that you have made some claims with ZERO evidence to back up anything you say. If you are so proud of your 'win' (in the most part) over the MS enforcement team, post all of the details, so that we can see what you took them to court over and the final ruling of the court. Also explain how MS 'harassed' you (black SUV's outside your house with men in dark glasses and trench coats? Threatening emails? Horses head in your bed ?)

Your claims go from beating MS in court in your earlier emails to ...'Took them to a civil court and with the help of fair trading we found a solution that for the most part was in my favour.'...
Hardly a consistent story!

And FYI the reason I have a strong support for Stepto and his team, I spent over 3 years as an (unpaid) Mod on a CS Gaming server (www.shady.com, it doesnt exist anymore but belonged to CJunky of DefCon notoriety)- having to deal with cheating weiners and potty mouthed llamas, either screaming abuse or spamming offensive emails. Its not fun, its tiresome and at times soul destroying, but when you have a thriving community, it becomes your responsibility to protect those people who do play nice and by the rules and those who dont, lose their privelidge to play in that community. Nobody is perfect, and occasionally mistakes are made, but on the whole Mods and enforcement teams do a good job. Likewise players make mistakes and generally the punishment reflects the level of their offense, with minor infractions getting short bans or suspensions and total douchebags losing all privelidges and perma-bans. The problem is certain individuals always want to push rules and then squeal like stuck pigs when they get punished, for what they know they have done wrong. Siting the blame on everyone else, except for themselves. A bit like the little t*rd who posted videos on YouTube of Stepto banning him unfairly (after he ediited out all of the profanity, the threats against Stepto's family and the rest of his pottyspeak) showing the world how badly the MS enforcement team had treated him. Fortunately the entire stream had been captured and was posted for the world to see what total scum this individual was.

In short if you want to be taken credibly, if you make allegations, back them up with some facts or expect to receive the same level of disbelief and doubt as you did off the XBL Enforcement team

Mushii

 

[james.miller]

EDIT: FWIW I got banned for posting something along the lines of "IED > Marine". It seems posting a fact can get you banned.

Lol, thats your credibility out the window.