B&B Discrimination Case Ruling

This is a tough issue for me to take a clear stance on. I'm in two minds because equality and fairness for everyone are core beliefs of mine, but I am also gay and don’t enjoy being discriminated against because of it. This confuses things as equality is a two-way street. Not allowing gay partners to sleep together is just as unfair as forcing someone to allow them to. I’ll try to rationalise my thoughts.

It is an unfortunate piece of evolutionary baggage that we humans are discriminatory. We coalesce in to groups that share our looks and our beliefs and attempt to exclude those who do not, out of fear. In the course of history the Darwinian ‘survival of the fittest’ has meant that the largest and most powerful of those groups tended to extinguish the smaller and weaker. As our minds have expanded we have come to realise that despite our differences we are equal, and that the diversity that comes with difference is a positive aspect of society.

We do, however, retain that irrational fear of those who are different. It still bubbles under the surface in our emotions and our instincts. In recent times those who seek power have consciously abused our nature to create arbitrary belief systems or establish groups that discriminate in an often violent and hateful manner, and there is no reason to suggest that people will not continue to do so. The mob does not take much to be rallied, even if it is nowadays rallied by the Daily Mail rather than a warlord or religious mystic.

In a free society discrimination would be possible. However, it would quickly be frowned upon, and the opportunities to discriminate would be very few in number. In theory, one could just require people to make their discriminations public – after all, they shouldn’t be ashamed of them if they believe in them.

Practically speaking in reference to this case, a requirement for the hotel to state clearly at all interfaces with the public that it discriminates towards unmarried couples, and as such all gay couples, would suffice. In my discrimination-free society people would be unhappy with such a hotel. They would protest against them. They’d shout from the rooftops how unfair they are being and how sad a position it is for them to take. Unfortunately, the beliefs held by the couple who run the hotel are quite common in our real society. A large number of people have been indoctrinated by hundreds of years of religious oppression to think that homosexuality is ‘a bit wrong’ and it will take hundreds of years of tolerance and understanding to undo it. Once the irrational belief is not commonplace, the concept of such a belief becomes abhorrent, something like the sign approach outlined above would work, and nobody need be unfairly treated.

To allow casual discrimination now, when as a society we still cannot trust ourselves to think straight, opens the doors to the potential abuse of society by those who would attempt to use it for their own gain; we must therefore not allow casual discrimination. The effect of this is that we have to be unfair towards those who want to discriminate, by not allowing them to.

In the case of this hotel, we must not allow them to prevent partnered couples who are gay from sleeping together if they allow partnered couples who are straight to sleep together. It might not be fair at this stage, but it is for the good of society, and it paves the way for a fair future.
 
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Nonsense, the majority of bars are as straight targetted as gay bars are gay targetted. I've never reliably heard of a gay bar refusing entry to someone for being straight, for being the type of person they might think would be trying to cause trouble in a gay bar is entirely fair enough. The closest I can think is Vanilla in Manchester which has a men can only come in if accompanied by a woman (being a lesbian bar), but I'm not sure that's vastly different from the various free entry/drinks promotions to try and get women into straight bars/clubs.

I think it may be venue specific and also depend upon the area you live. Trust me the local gay bar here is not the most welcoming place to non-gays.

Of course banning people they "think" may be trouble is difficult to separate from "heterosexual men cause trouble in gay bars" though

And yes, the lesbian bar is discriminatory by the letter of the law.

The difficulty in this is why I see no issue with having bar/clubs/hotels that cater exclusively for a specific kind of lifestyle, as long as it is regulated. (Not allowing all the bars in an area to ban gays and vice versa)
 
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I think it may be venue specific and also depend upon the area you live. Trust me the local gay bar here is not the most welcoming place to non-gays.

Of course banning people they "think" may be trouble is difficult to separate from "heterosexual men cause trouble in gay bars" though

And yes, the lesbian bar is discriminatory by the letter of the law.

The difficulty in this is why I see no issue with having bar/clubs/hotels that cater exclusively for a specific kind of lifestyle, as long as it is regulated. (Not allowing all the bars in an area to ban gays and vice versa)


All this talk of other bars etc discriminating against straight people is pretty irrelevent until it is tested in law. Plenty of people/businesses do illegal things - but it doesn't make it right.

For me it's quite clear - the couple ran a B&B and treated straight married couples differently from a gay couple in a civil partnership. That's discriminatory and as such the judgement seems fair.

The suggestions in the other posts above that any business (based at home or otherwise) should be able to choose to discriminate as they see fit is crazy and would send us back to the dark ages. Once you allow that where do you draw the line? Perhaps the directors at *insert generic supermarket brand* have decided that God has condemned disabled people and thus they don't want to serve them .. would that be ok because it's their business and it's up to them who they serve? Not a chance. Once you decide to run and profit from a business you run by societies rules and not your own beliefs.
 
Awesome, I wonder if there are any straight couples that had been refused a double bed out there? I guess now that this has happened, they can all come out of the wood work and get the same result.
 
Awesome, I wonder if there are any straight couples that had been refused a double bed out there? I guess now that this has happened, they can all come out of the wood work and get the same result.
Under what circumstances would a straight couple that have been refused a double bed have grounds upon which to claim they have been discriminated against?
 
Under what circumstances would a straight couple that have been refused a double bed have grounds upon which to claim they have been discriminated against?
I guess they wouldnt have any grounds at all as they could always go and get married and then stay at the place.

So the couple that won, what exactly was their claim? Was it "that they couldnt ever be technically married and thus it was unfair to them"?
 
Under what circumstances would a straight couple that have been refused a double bed have grounds upon which to claim they have been discriminated against?

Because they were unmarried, as the Gay couple were.

Were the gay couple offered a twin room?

I was once with a girlfriend a long time ago, we were asked if we were married and told only twin rooms were available for unmarried couples.

We just pushed the beds together.
 
Because they were unmarried, as the Gay couple were.

Were the gay couple offered a twin room?

I was once with a girlfriend a long time ago, we were asked if we were married and told only twin rooms were available for unmarried couples.

We just pushed the beds together.

DEVIANT !!

BURN HIM !!
 
The discrimination in question has nothing to do with them being gay. The discrimination is in not treating a civil partnership in the same way as a marriage, which you legally must. If they had refused a heterosexual couple in a civil partnership then exactly the same case could have been brought and exactly the same judgement should have been made.

The interesting question is whether they would be able to discriminate purely on the grounds of sexuality i.e. no same sex couples.
 
Because they were unmarried, as the Gay couple were.

Were the gay couple offered a twin room?

I was once with a girlfriend a long time ago, we were asked if we were married and told only twin rooms were available for unmarried couples.

We just pushed the beds together.

The gay couple weren't unmarried. Or, at least, were in a situation as close as possible to marriage.
 
Because they were unmarried, as the Gay couple were.
Hmm, yes, of course. I guess it depends whether the prevention of discrimination should be limited to enforced tolerance of people's nature or also of people's choices. I am not entirely sure so have to spend some time considering it.
 
The gay couple weren't unmarried. Or, at least, were in a situation as close as possible to marriage.

Not married though were they. Marriage is a heterosexual only club, which is discriminatory in itself.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/dec/19/gayrights.planningyourwedding

peter tatchell said:
Civil partnerships are for same-sex couples only. Straights are excluded. Conversely, marriage remains reserved for heterosexuals, to the exclusion of gays. The differential treatment of hetero and homo couples is enshrined in law. Welcome to segregation, UK-style.
 
Hmm, yes, of course. I guess it depends whether the prevention of discrimination should be limited to enforced tolerance of people's nature or also of people's choices. I am not entirely sure so have to spend some time considering it.

I agree it is a minefield. Do we allow people to live their lives according to their beliefs or enforce the rights of other upon them.

It seems to be one of those impossible dilemma's. I can see each parties POV on this and support both, which is says a lot about how the law deals with this.
 
Not married though were they. Marriage is a heterosexual only club, which is discriminatory in itself.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/dec/19/gayrights.planningyourwedding

The thing that puzzles me is why this is such a surprise... I always though that Marriage was a religious institution? Therefore the way it works is aligned with the beliefs/moral code of that/those institution(s).

If, for example, Christianity/Catholicism says that "homobumfun is wrong, therefore only men & women can marry", then I don't think they're likely to completely rewrite their ancient texts to accommodate modern society.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
 
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