Poetry: The Door Closes

rypt · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:07

I have a better question, why were YOU in the prison?

Castiel · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:08

Rostam said:
Personally i think he went about the whole thing the wrong way, incitement to murder is a naughty thing to be doing however you look at it. Yet it burns when no one stands in the way of tyrants who cause war worldwide and cover it up like it's all good. Theres a lot of innocents who are dying out there and my cell mate here just became overwhelmed by the sight of oppression and expressed himself by posting stupidness on the internet. Does he deserve life in prison for that?

That has yet to be determined by a court.

I suggest your friend refrains from this approach to 'helping' the so called oppressed in Iraq. If he wishes to help them, he can join one of the aid projects or he can campaign AGAINST the extremism that precipitated the war instead of being part of the problem.

Rostam · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:10

Cybermyk said:
Yes

You say Yes because it's never happened to someone in your family or someone close to you or someone you love.
But this guy has a mother and a father, family and loved ones. He wanted to do well in his career and have kids later in life.
I spent 1 year behind bars for something unrelated, yet even one year was 'hard' to say the least.. not because of prison itself.. prison life is soft. But the pain it causes loved ones. It's easy to give someone life or say they deserve life. But Life means life and in the case of life in prison, death is easier to deal with for everyone involved.

Castiel · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:11

DAnDan said:
Yes. You can't justify something just becuase you have an actual reason. Had people followed his instructions and actually murdered MPs over this, would you still say the same thing?

Someone tried, Roshonara Choudhry.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/03/roshonara-choudhry-jailed-life-attack

DAnDan · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:12

Rostam said:
You say Yes because it's never happened to someone in your family or someone close to you or someone you love.
But this guy has a mother and a father, family and loved ones. He wanted to do well in his career and have kids later in life.
I spent 1 year behind bars for something unrelated, yet even one year was 'hard' to say the least.. not because of prison itself.. prison life is soft. But the pain it causes loved ones. It's easy to give someone life or say they deserve life. But Life means life and in the case of life in prison, death is easier to deal with for everyone involved.

Wait, so becuase the PUNISHMENT is hard to deal with, he shouldn't be punished for his crime?

Davy644 · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:13

The guy in question` is in prison for this sort a thing` yet he still manages to get his message across,Am not sure if am right or wrong` it just doesn't sit right with me,

Castiel · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:17

Rostam said:
You say Yes because it's never happened to someone in your family or someone close to you or someone you love.
But this guy has a mother and a father, family and loved ones. He wanted to do well in his career and have kids later in life.
I spent 1 year behind bars for something unrelated, yet even one year was 'hard' to say the least.. not because of prison itself.. prison life is soft. But the pain it causes loved ones. It's easy to give someone life or say they deserve life. But Life means life and in the case of life in prison, death is easier to deal with for everyone involved.

He should have thought of that before he became radicalised. You make you choices and you pay for them.

Rostam · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:18

DAnDan said:
Wait, so becuase the PUNISHMENT is hard to deal with, he shouldn't be punished for his crime?

I'm not saying that, but just throwing life at someone for some forum post is harsh. when people for kilos of drugs are only doing 18 months or a few years for example.

Castiel · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:19

Rostam said:
I'm not saying that, but just throwing life at someone for some forum post is harsh. when people for kilos of drugs are only doing 18 months or a few years for example.

He hasn't been found guilty yet, let alone sentenced.

Ahleckz · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:20

Whilst I don't think the sentencing is correct (I reckon the OP/his pal have got confused somewhere), I agree with the OP in that I think it is absurd that some one can be potentially locked up for this amount of time for doing what he has done. The crime really is nonsense and is a smack in the face of the idea behind right to feel speech. I would follow the American lead and rule on each case with respect to its probable danger of occurrence rather than just having a blanket rule that 'incitement' is illegal full stop.
It's difficult to be objective on an issue like this, but to suggest someone is a coward for writing their views instead of acting them out is frankly absurd.

PermaBanned · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:22

Rostam said:
I'm not saying that, but just throwing life at someone for some forum post is harsh. when people for kilos of drugs are only doing 18 months or a few years for example.

And people who mass produce drugs that are taxed get away with millions every year.

Nobody should incite racial hatred or wish death on anybody else, ideally. You raise a good point however, in that if they had said something along those lines without the religious undertone then arguably nothing would have come of it. Religion is inherently a bad thing, but is it worth 10 years or life?

Rostam · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:22

Castiel said:
That has yet to be determined by a court.

I suggest your friend refrains from this approach to 'helping' the so called oppressed in Iraq. If he wishes to help them, he can join one of the aid projects or he can campaign AGAINST the extremism that precipitated the war instead of being part of the problem.

True, True, i'd be the first to admit he made a mistake. Yet aid projects like the 31 May 2010 floatila aid boat going to palestine or the anti-war campaigners who get gassed, beaten and flagged as violent protestors. Watch the movie Battle in Seattle if u want to see where campaigning leads. No one listens, No one stops the wars.

DAnDan · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:22

Rostam said:
I'm not saying that, but just throwing life at someone for some forum post is harsh. when people for kilos of drugs are only doing 18 months or a few years for example.

It's a little more than just "some forum post", and seeing as Castiel posted a link to a case of it actually happening, I'd say it's a very serious crime!

"andy" · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:22

Biohazard said:
there is where he went wrong..

http://revolutioninchrist.com/Home.html

Cybermyk · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:23

Rostam said:
You say Yes because it's never happened to someone in your family or someone close to you or someone you love.
But this guy has a mother and a father, family and loved ones. He wanted to do well in his career and have kids later in life.
I spent 1 year behind bars for something unrelated, yet even one year was 'hard' to say the least.. not because of prison itself.. prison life is soft. But the pain it causes loved ones. It's easy to give someone life or say they deserve life. But Life means life and in the case of life in prison, death is easier to deal with for everyone involved.

That's a bit presumptuous isn't it? You know nothing about me or my friends and family. Utter crap.

DAnDan · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:27

"andy" said:
http://revolutioninchrist.com/Home.html

From a quick read they actually seem fairly down to earth (given the topic, anyway), I think the web address is a little misleading

.

Rostam · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:29

Cybermyk said:
That's a bit presumptuous isn't it? You know nothing about me or my friends and family. Utter crap.

I'm sorry, i didn't mean to seem presumptuous. I only wanted to point out that it's not easy to deal with a family member in prison for life. Specially if they are not a phsycopath or/and have not hurt anyone.
People believe in this lock them up and throw away the key policy like its nothing. This is peoples life we're talking about, wish people could go in for a week to see how it is, then mabye as a society we could promote rehabilitation instead of banging people up. I learned nothing from my time in prison. My family made me want to change my ways, only then did i want to change from inside. Prison only made things worse and put me in league with bigger criminals.

This guy might have been driven to the extream in his ideology, but wouldn't counsiling, probation, house arrest or any other number of things been better for him and the tax payers money?

Castiel · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:34

Ahleckz said:
It's difficult to be objective on an issue like this, but to suggest someone is a coward for writing their views instead of acting them out is frankly absurd.

He is not a coward for writing his views, he is one for asking others to do what he would not do himself.

mushroomsoup · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:37

Castiel said:
He is not a coward for writing his views, he is one for asking others to do what he would not do himself.

with respect, i disagree.. by that thinking, Castile, is every leader also a coward? I think you need to elaborate

Ahleckz · 23 Jan 2011 at 01:40

Castiel said:
He is not a coward for writing his views, he is one for asking others to do what he would not do himself.

That's a terribly sweeping view. He could be called a General, and if he is capable of mobilizing 10 people into action then he is much more successful than if he did it itself and mobilized no one and it would be unfair to suggest he's a coward. Or are all leaders cowards and we shouldn't give them any time or respect?