The future direction of BMW

[Gaygle]

I doubt it will "hurt BMW a lot", as all manufacturers will be forced to go down the same route to meet EU emissions targets and improve fuel economy.

I think it will, because most other manufacturers that i can think of already have high power/low emissions/low capactiy 2.0t/1.6t all over their range. BMW/Merc are the only big manufacturers which still have a wide range of high power/large capacity/6 cylinder engines.

VW/Audi/Seat have their 2.0t/1.4TSi/2.0TSi
Ford have their new EcoBoost 2.0t (and a 1.6t to come IIRC)
Vauxhall have their 2.0t and a 1.6t in the Corsa VXR
Toyota have the most boring line up of engines i've ever seen

etc etc.

It's a bummer if you enjoy lag free engines, too.

And if you like nice sounding engines. But fear not! Apparently the new N20 engine will have a sound generator! ayayayayay

When did you last buy a brand new BMW then?

Presumably if people can't buy 6 cylinder BMW cars from new, i can't buy them used.

Wait to try the new 4 pots before getting concerned that they'll be awful. I'm sure BMW are clever enough to make their new 4 pots damn near as smooth as an engine with more cylinders.

Oh, i have no doubt BMW will do a great job on them (for instance, their 3 pot 1.35 engine that they are going to put in the 1 series is going to produce over 180bhp). But at the end of the day, it will still be a 4 pot. And once you have driven a 6 pot engine, the thought that you might have to go back to a 4 pot in the future (against your will) is a disappointing one.

I know my 1.4 4 pot feels just like a Mercedes V8 anyway.

All that matters is that you think it does

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Thats nice.

It is a shame yes. But I see similar critism of Honda and the usual ricer comments about the new stuff.... yet those comments come from people who never buy them new anyway. There is no sense providing products that meet the 2nd hand car buys demands.

Thats where the industry is today. There is no problems with citing that in this thread, even if it is playing devils advocate.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Nobody is arguing that there is any call for building new cars based on the desires of used car owners (Though you know as well as I do that there is more profit for a car dealer in servicing and repairing cars than there is in selling them in the first place but thats a seperate issue).

I suspect BMW's future business plan is shaped by EU legislation not consumer demand. This is of course beyond BMW's control.

That and the fact consumers are, largely, stupid and do little if any pre-purchase research. Give them a 272bhp 3 litre petrol engine with 173g/km of CO2 and near 40mpg combined and they'll still not buy it

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Presumably if people can't buy 6 cylinder BMW cars from new, i can't buy them used.

Well by definition no you can't... as they wont exist.

Thats more so my point i guess. The new buyers are where BMW make there money and the new buyer gets benefit from the smaller engines.

But yes you're right and so is Fox, its EU limits that are influencing the decisions coupled with the diesel brainwashing/company car requirements.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Nobody is arguing that there is any call for building new cars based on the desires of used car owners (Though you know as well as I do that there is more profit for a car dealer in servicing and repairing cars than there is in selling them in the first place but thats a seperate issue).

Thats nursery work. Im talking about birth, where the car is made. How many BMW dealers are actually run by BMW such that they factor into BMW profits?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

You have effectively stated that none of us are allowed any opinion on the product range of any manufacturer unless we buy brand new cars from that manufacturer. What a worthless, pathetic and useless thing to say. I'm shocked its come from you.

I didnt lay claim to not having an opinion. Show me where I did?

This is a forum. Worthless, pathetic comments are just as valid as any other. The irony of course is that is starting just as much discussion in the same forum thread as any other comment could expect to, hence its not useless.

PS. I cant keep up with your post edits adding extra material Succint comment prompts Fox rage shocker.

 

[Fusion]

Who has the best petrol 4-pot on the market today- Audi? Does it get anywhere near a six cylinder engine in refinement terms?

 

[Gaygle]

There is no sense providing products that meet the 2nd hand car buys demands.

Why not provide cars that serve both markets - for example i think the current e90 range is a very good balance?

If there are no more 6 cyl engines and only 2.0 4pot's remain i may decide to buy a used Audi instead of a used BMW, afterall, half the reason i like BMW's is because of the engines.

Because of this, i won't be:

A) Dropping £20k on a AUC at a BMW dealers
B) Paying for servicing at the BMW dealers
C) Paying for parts at the BMW dealers
D) Paying for repairs at the BMW dealers

So you say that used car buyers shouldn't have a say in the direction i that BMW go? Rubbish, and now because of this, they may have lost £25k from me in the used marketplace.

 

[Cosimo]

The i stuff is going to be electric and diesel-electric though.

More about it:

​

http://www.bmw-i.co.uk/en_gb/

Sustainable mobility is where it's at and the motor industry is/will be heading this way.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

So you say that used car buyers shouldn't have a say in the direction i that BMW go? Rubbish, and now because of this, they may have lost £25k from me in the used marketplace.

I didnt actually mean it.....

BMW dealer?

BMW already have the money from the car being sold and registered new when they made it. Something they are all struggling with to retain market share. Biggest market growth is China where currently you see a 30% tax on cars purely above 2.0 in capacity, hence the race to offer premium downsize cars in a sector where the buyers often dont drive the car anyway - they have drivers and sit in the back.

 

[flibbage0]

Threads like these just make me depressed.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Surely there is some hope in that this eco stuff will be sitting under the 'i' brand giving a degree of isolation to the core RWD BMW products. The i brand also allows more focus on NEDC CO2 'cheater' products to lower the corporate average.

BMW also has Mini up its sleeve for the EU 2012 120g/km target.

 

[FTM]

theres less and less manufacturers actually making sporting saloons anyway

BMW/Audi basically have the market to themselves


when was the last time peugot/renault/citroen produced a sporting saloon?

ford have not used the ST brand in the new mondeo line up

vauxhalls current turbo petrol engine line up int eh insiginia looks expensive to tax and run

personally I am looking forward to seeing what they can do with a 4 pot petrol

at the moment the VAG 2.0 tsi is a great balance between power and economy, if BMW have to go down this route then they hopefully will do a good job

200 ish BHP, 40 ish mpg and 150 ish to tax is a good price point for me..I still prefer to drive a petrol over a diesel, purely as thats they way I have always driven and I like it, I dont want to be forced to move to a diesel because the technology of petrol engines isnt being developed any more

my next car change will be in 2012 and I am looking forward to seeing what is coming to the market

 

[Irish_Tom]

I had a similar reaction to the OP's when I read about the new Z2 being FWD and 4pot.

The article I read about it said it was BMW's attempt at an MX5 killer but surely the whole point of the '5 is that it's RWD!

 

[Participant]

Who has the best petrol 4-pot on the market today- Audi?

I would say the VAG 2.0 TFSI.

I'm not sure the restriction on engine choice is that drastic, yet. The new Audi A7 doesn't even come with an engine smaller than 2.8, being available in 2.8 FSI, 3.0 TFSI, or 3.0 TDI. I'm surprised they didn't stick a 2.0 TDI in there, since I see many A6s with that engine. That said it's marketed as a 4 door sports coupe so maybe it's no great surprise.

 

[FTM]

I would say the VAG 2.0 TFSI.

I'm not sure the restriction on engine choice is that drastic, yet. The new Audi A7 doesn't even come with an engine smaller than 2.8, being available in 2.8 FSI, 3.0 TFSI, or 3.0 TDI. I'm surprised they didn't stick a 2.0 TDI in there, since I say any A6s with that engine. That said it's marketed as a 4 door sports coupe so maybe it's no great surprise.

I would agree

210 brake, 42mpg and 155 quod to tax for a year

 

[DAIR]

I would agree

210 brake, 42mpg and 155 quod to tax for a year

This is the same engine found in the S3 and Ann Golf GTi right?

 

[FTM]

I think the S3 is based on an older engine number as its pushing 265bhp, same as the cupra R

I think these are the ea113 engine whereas the newer engines are numbered ea888

teh ea113 was found in various power outputs right across the range including the mk5 golf gti, the leon FR and the facelifted octavia vRS and the scirocco when it was first released

the senior partners in VAG, VW and audi are now putting the newer engine in across their ranges gradually while seat and skoda still have the lower output engine (this may change with skoda later as they will probably get the new engine for the mk3 octavia next year) though it looks like the seat exeo is now starting to get the new engine as well, the leon makes do with the old one

 

[Gaygle]

At the moment the VAG 2.0 tsi is a great balance between power and economy, if BMW have to go down this route then they hopefully will do a good job

200 ish BHP, 40 ish mpg and 150 ish to tax is a good price point for me..

VAG are going to need to up their game as well, because i can currently buy a 330i with a 3 litre 6 cylinder engine and 272bhp that does 39mpg and costs £180 to tax.

Even this isn't good enough for the EU, so BMW have had to really change their tactic therefore, i think the 4-pot turbo's are going to be producing much less CO2, in the region of 140-150g/km with 50+ MPG.

 

[Flukester]

future direction ?, prolly backwards.. same as they appear in my wing mirrors on a daily basis